Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
I tend to agree BUT I also know that for many, they need a tangible person to go to and they like the fellowship" aspect of churchgoing.
U don't think we need ( ever needed really) a hierarchy and organization per say.
Not every is apt to learn and research for themselves, the majority like to be taught rather than learn.
Yeah but couldnt you just have a bible group that serves the community and have everyone on equal footing and those who need it can just find a sponsor?

See, it's not the spirituality that really annoys me, it's the institution. I'm a firm believe that such an institution is not likely to change what it needs to change to not be corrupt and pretty much in many ways a pyramid scam.

I just don't think the good outweighs the bad and I also believe that everything good about it could be done by anyone with the resources.


I didn't say "ever needed". That is debatable, I'll give you that. But today, no, not needed. I have no issue with people coming together to discuss an interest. I have no issue with the natural leaders and intellectuals in said group to help those who maybe need that helping hand to follow along. I have no issue with people taking on the role of "father" of the group in that they are there to listen and give advice. It's the large scale institution I have issue with. Like you said, the hierarchy.

The whole american style breakaways make more sense to me. Not complete sense, but more sense. But even they have adapted messed up hierarchies. I do have to say though... the isolation of some of these groups have created and harboured some pretty crazy fringe elements. But that is just a reality of life, jerks and nutbags will always find a reason. Religion or not.

What really bothers me is the insinuation that you have to go through your priest. It doesn't actually come right out and say that anywhere in the books(maybe the old test, but its a much diff context)

I can't debate the details with you because you are way above my paygrade in that respect, but do you see where I'm coming from?

For the record, I grew up Catholic, I am baptized, confirmed, all that fun stuff. I just grew out of it I guess. I'm a scientist at heart and I am basically a theological non-cognitivist. When I reach the end of my understanding, I don't make leaps like that. I have hypotheses, but not actual theories.