WC is totally effective, if you let it to be.

[imperialtaichi]

I sometimes get totally frustrated, when people claims WC is ineffective.

The thing is, learning WC is like learning to drive and getting your driver's liscence; of course, one needs to learn the road rules and adhere to to them. Otherwise you will not pass the driving test.

However, if one wants to be a race/stunt car driver, one needs to take the basic driving skills beyond the "learners" road rules and adapt it and apply it to the type of driving, and the type of roads you want.

Unfortunately, too many "experts" still doing WC like little old lady drivers; and when someone drives their WC like racing drivers, these little old ladies claim they are not driving safely/properly.

WC is not ineffective. It's the little old lady drivers that's ineffective.

Sorry for the ranting.

[Mutant]

Very well said, agreed 100%

[k gledhill]

Originally Posted by imperialtaichi

I sometimes get totally frustrated, when people claims WC is ineffective.

The thing is, learning WC is like learning to drive and getting your driver's liscence; of course, one needs to learn the road rules and adhere to to them. Otherwise you will not pass the driving test.

However, if one wants to be a race/stunt car driver, one needs to take the basic driving skills beyond the "learners" road rules and adapt it and apply it to the type of driving, and the type of roads you want.

Unfortunately, too many "experts" still doing WC like little old lady drivers; and when someone drives their WC like racing drivers, these little old ladies claim they are not driving safely/properly.

WC is not ineffective. It's the little old lady drivers that's ineffective.

Sorry for the ranting.

Nice post , I do motocross, does that count ?

[Chadderz]

Originally Posted by imperialtaichi

I sometimes get totally frustrated, when people claims WC is ineffective.

The thing is, learning WC is like learning to drive and getting your driver's liscence; of course, one needs to learn the road rules and adhere to to them. Otherwise you will not pass the driving test.

However, if one wants to be a race/stunt car driver, one needs to take the basic driving skills beyond the "learners" road rules and adapt it and apply it to the type of driving, and the type of roads you want.

Unfortunately, too many "experts" still doing WC like little old lady drivers; and when someone drives their WC like racing drivers, these little old ladies claim they are not driving safely/properly.

WC is not ineffective. It's the little old lady drivers that's ineffective.

Sorry for the ranting.

I think WC guys try to learn driving from GTA xD

[WingChunABQ]

Like my sifu always says: "It's not the art that fails the person. It's the person that fails the art."

[nasmedicine]

Originally Posted by imperialtaichi

I sometimes get totally frustrated, when people claims WC is ineffective.

The thing is, learning WC is like learning to drive and getting your driver's liscence; of course, one needs to learn the road rules and adhere to to them. Otherwise you will not pass the driving test.

However, if one wants to be a race/stunt car driver, one needs to take the basic driving skills beyond the "learners" road rules and adapt it and apply it to the type of driving, and the type of roads you want.

Unfortunately, too many "experts" still doing WC like little old lady drivers; and when someone drives their WC like racing drivers, these little old ladies claim they are not driving safely/properly.

WC is not ineffective. It's the little old lady drivers that's ineffective.

Sorry for the ranting.

LOL, love it! Great post!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Originally Posted by imperialtaichi

I sometimes get totally frustrated, when people claims WC is ineffective.

The thing is, learning WC is like learning to drive and getting your driver's liscence; of course, one needs to learn the road rules and adhere to to them. Otherwise you will not pass the driving test.

However, if one wants to be a race/stunt car driver, one needs to take the basic driving skills beyond the "learners" road rules and adapt it and apply it to the type of driving, and the type of roads you want.

Unfortunately, too many "experts" still doing WC like little old lady drivers; and when someone drives their WC like racing drivers, these little old ladies claim they are not driving safely/properly.

WC is not ineffective. It's the little old lady drivers that's ineffective.

Sorry for the ranting.

To add to your analogy:
The problem with too many WC people is that all they do is drive on "closed roads" and under "controlled circumstances".
Which is great for stunt driving but does nothing for the real world were one MUST take into account what OTHER drives do as well.
Because of this, when SOME WC "drivers" go out in the real world, they get upset that other "drivers" don't drive they way they WANT them too and they they realize that their "driving skills" are lacking and blame the CAR.

[Lee Chiang Po]

People take the most scientific, most effective fighting system ever devised, then they start altering it to become more like MMA or boxing or Muay Thai and then whine because they can't make it work. What makes your stuff work is your willingness to apply it. You need to be mean. You need to be fearless. And you need to have the killer instinct. You know, a gun is absolutely no good at all in a fight unless you shoot someone with it. It is just a club. Possibly even a scare item. But unless you are willing to use it, it is worthless. That applies to your Wing Chun too. You can not do it half a$$ed or it will fail you. You have to apply it like you mean it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

People take the most scientific, most effective fighting system ever devised

I stopped reading here because I spewed coffee out of my nose !!!

[k gledhill]

"The theory of Wing Chun works flawlessly, if, you can implement it without any errors. But the theory is only a theory and it does not mean anything if you can not make it work. During battle your system may be the best theory, but if your skill level below the level of skill of your opponent, you simply lose. No theory of the world will not save you from defeat."

Wong Shun Leung

As the man once said to me after Bear Hugging me , TRAIN HARD !

Go the extra mile, its not so crowded there... anon

[Yoshiyahu]

Most people who do WC only do apart of it...meaning they only have shell of the WC....


Every fighting system needs more than air work and partner work...


Air Work
1.Forms
2.Punches in the air
3.Kicks
4.Weapon forms
5.Chi gung


Partner Work
1.San Shou Drills
2.Chi Sau drills
3.Free Sparring
4.Take Downs
5.Form Application


But you also need power and strenth building along with other stuff...


The Skill of person Fighting is not only in how accuracte and precise you can perform a technique. Nor is how superior your timing is to your opponent.

Having superior timing and accuracy and percision can definitely make your techniques work for you an win against opponent who is equal to you in strenght and power. But what about opponent who has more power than you.

for instance most WC people simply develop skill in techniques and principles but not so much in phyiscal conditioning outside of air work...

Now I will mention Practicing the weapons in the air can give you some conditioning and also doing the wooden man form and various drills can give you more power. But most WC schools Only practiced the Mook Yan Jong slowly with no power. One should practice the MYJ two ways.

1.With out power and force
2.With power and force

So you can see what the technique feels like in real fighting and practice with real intent and power as well as refine your techniques and develop correct alignment and posistioning by going slow. Same with the forms. They should be practiced fast and hard as well as slow and soft. But few people do this...

In addition to pole work and maybe hitting the wall bag and Wooden Man...You should do other stuff to develop your skill...


Such stretching to so you can become more agile and flexible.

Lifting weights, push ups, sit ups, pull ups, and other strength building exercises.

Hitting a heavy bag along with a wall bag.

Kicking a wooden post or wall.

Doing squats, leg lifts and other things to develop your legs.


Also work on stamina and endurance as well as speed.


If you have the greatest techniques in the world but your opponent is alot stronger than you and too fast for you defend against how will you be able to utilize your skill in percision and accuracy and perfect timing?


Someone who is stronger and more powerful usually can defeat a weaker opponent!

[wingchunIan]

Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu

If you have the greatest techniques in the world but your opponent is alot stronger than you and too fast for you defend against how will you be able to utilize your skill in percision and accuracy and perfect timing?


Someone who is stronger and more powerful usually can defeat a weaker opponent!

If you truly believe that, then stop training WC and start taking steroids and lifting heavy weights instead.
The one thing BJJ showed when UFC first started was that skill and technique can overcome a much larger and stronger opponent. Unfortunately in WC many people mistake skill for fancy hand techniques when in reality the true skill is creating and using angles, maintaining distance, using short sharp bursts of energy to control and disrupt, and delivering shock to the jic seen through fast relaxed strikes. All of which are hard to see and even harder to do.

[Wayfaring]

On the importance of conditioning I like the wrestling philosophy:

"Conditioning is the greatest hold". Karl Gotch - catch wrestler.

The idea of the weak overcoming the strong, the small overcoming the large, the technically trained overcoming the athlete is the holy grail of all martial arts.

While this can be accomplished, the disparity and mismatch that it's available to overcome is many times less than martial artists would like to believe. And when it does happen many times it's a conditioned smaller athlete overcoming a non-conditioned or lesser conditioned larger person.

Technique is important. Conditioning is important too. I like the viewpoint of viewing conditioning as your greatest technique. I think it's healthy from not only a realistic practical application perspective but also good from a longevity perspective. I want to train hard athletically well into my latter years. Will I be able to compete older against younger athletes? I can sure try. And I can sure surprise them too.

[sanjuro_ronin]

One can't put a degree of importance over the various attributes, ALL are crucial and all need to be developed to their highest potential, there is not one that is more than any other.
The best fighter is the one that has developed his speed, strength, skill and conditioning to its highest degree.

[Yoshiyahu]

Im simply saying real skill derives from strength, power, speed, flexibility, timing, cooridation, stamina and accuracy and preceision.


With out the following how will you be able to apply any principles, techniques or centerline theory against an opponent who possess more power, strength, flexibility, accuracy, precision, stamina and cooridation. If they can read you and counter you better than you can them your lost mate....Its not about WC or about what style you do. its about fighting!

Originally Posted by JPinAZ

Is that a fact or just your opinion? You state it as if it's fact and that you know so much about all the 10's or 100's of thousands of WC practitioners all over the world, so where is your proof or evidence, or are you just talking out your yahu as usual?



No one argues that stregth and speed help, but the above thinking is proof of someone only thinking of WC fighting as mearly techniques and attributes. IMO, this is very narrow view and missing the boat on what WCK is all about.
I agree with wingchunIan, you shold quit WC and just start taking steroids if you believe the above is what WCK is all about. But then, I'm really starting to believe you don't actually train WCK much (or with anyone good), or you wouldn't talk like you do

what if your opponent who doesn't do wing chun has more accuracy, precision and cooridation at controlling angles than you do. What if he posses more power and strength than you do has better timing than you so he can counter your short burst and reidrect your disrubtion and striking. Again Someone who is more skilled will win. it dont matter what style you do. If two people from the same style have the techniques and principles down evenly...who usually wins? The weaker opponent or the stronger opponent?

Originally Posted by wingchunIan

If you truly believe that, then stop training WC and start taking steroids and lifting heavy weights instead.
The one thing BJJ showed when UFC first started was that skill and technique can overcome a much larger and stronger opponent. Unfortunately in WC many people mistake skill for fancy hand techniques when in reality the true skill is creating and using angles, maintaining distance, using short sharp bursts of energy to control and disrupt, and delivering shock to the jic seen through fast relaxed strikes. All of which are hard to see and even harder to do.

Wayfaring and SanJuro are right!!!!

Originally Posted by Wayfaring

On the importance of conditioning I like the wrestling philosophy:

"Conditioning is the greatest hold". Karl Gotch - catch wrestler.

The idea of the weak overcoming the strong, the small overcoming the large, the technically trained overcoming the athlete is the holy grail of all martial arts.

While this can be accomplished, the disparity and mismatch that it's available to overcome is many times less than martial artists would like to believe. And when it does happen many times it's a conditioned smaller athlete overcoming a non-conditioned or lesser conditioned larger person.

Technique is important. Conditioning is important too. I like the viewpoint of viewing conditioning as your greatest technique. I think it's healthy from not only a realistic practical application perspective but also good from a longevity perspective. I want to train hard athletically well into my latter years. Will I be able to compete older against younger athletes? I can sure try. And I can sure surprise them too.

Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

One can't put a degree of importance over the various attributes, ALL are crucial and all need to be developed to their highest potential, there is not one that is more than any other.
The best fighter is the one that has developed his speed, strength, skill and conditioning to its highest degree.