8-step mantis yesterday and today

[Syre]

On this very interesting page: http://www.fortunecity.com/olympia/moses/1049/id34.htm there are pictures of Grand Master Wie Hsiao Tang doing the 8 stances of 8-step praying mantis.

These are somewhat different from the stances I was taught.

For example:

- in horse stance, the hand position is similar to that used today for bow stance. Also, the feet are not parallel, but turn out slightly. I have always thought that they should probably turn out slightly, and this seems to confirm that idea.

- sitting tiger stance, as shown, is a name that makes sense. For some reason I was taught this as "tiger head" (see below).

- Mantis stance is similar to the one I was taught, but the closer hand (in this case the right) is held away from the body near the shoulder instead of more or less under the chin as I was taught.

- the stance called Tiger's Head in the pictures is what I was taught as "50/50 Stance".

- the low stance in the pictures is similar to what I was taught as "falling stance", however the hand positions are completely different. These positions seem to make more sense.

- and again in the winter rooster stance, which I was taught as "single leg stance" the hand positions are completely different, being more similar to what's shown as Tigers Head in the pictures.

QUESTIONS:

- what does it mean that these look so different from what is taught today and what's shown on Master Shyun's page: http://www.8step.com/mantis/stances.html ?

- are there more pictures of earlier or other masters available in this style? How about video? I heard that some video transfers of films made of Grand Master Wie Hsiao Tang or other old masters existed. If so, does anyone know where to get it?

- Any other comments?

Thanks!

[EARTH DRAGON]

Allow me to clear up the confusion, the first group of pictures was taken from george listjaks website who is not even in the 8 step system, so they are not good reference at all, notice he doesnt advertise 8 step but yet has pictues of my teachers teacher on his site. The reson for this is he has taken the pictures and scanned them out of a book that he borrowed from the library. As you know, no master gives the general public the real deal in a book for all to see so master wei posed for those pictures in a non- shalant way just to give the book some flavor. But that is not how he taught or even wrote down the real names of the 8 stances. This is also true of the 8 fists in the book he describes them totally different then the way they are taught, mainly becuse you didnt have to be a student to read the book and 8 step motto is secrets and techniques and I can assure you that we dont volunteer information out to the general public even in the basiscs of proper stance and names for certain applications. the second group of pictures is taken from master shyuns webiste and is more accurate to the way the stances are actually taught however, I have personal pictures that show a much yonuger master shyun in extremly lower stances but again he also is extrmely camera shy, and even shyer when it comes to video, old fashion chinese mentallity..... give them nothing that they dont deserve or have not worked hard enough for...

[Syre]

Actually, that site does say it's 8 Step.

See: http://www.fortunecity.com/olympia/moses/1049/index.htm

"Welcome to the 8 STEP PRAYING MANTIS KUNG FU web site."

[EARTH DRAGON]

Yes I know but legally he is not allowed to advertise that he teaches 8 step becuse he was kicked out of the system and taken to court for breeach of contract and some other things so he even changed the name of his school and what he teaches, he even goes as far as sayhing that he teaches plum blossom and six harmonies both of which he has only went to semiars and learned a couple techniques.....

[MonkSanTe]

You know what, instead of posting about how "bad" our school is, or putting down Sifu Lisjak on the internet, why don't you come down and talk to him. Then you can tell him about all the things you say face to face. Every single time something comes up about our school, you go to town bashing it. Apparently that is what this board is for. You act like the know it all, and tell everyone how things are about everything. I love your posts about not trying to argue with people or put people down. Hmm, that's not what I got out of this thread. Another thing that I find funny is how you post things on here like they are facts. The reality of the situation is that you are lying. The pictures of Grandmaster Wei are from the library? Wow, where do you come up with this stuff. Those are some pretty serious accusations you make on here, accusations I don't believe are yours to make. Man, you seriously have some jealousy (or mental) issues to take care of.


PS-I apologize to everyone that uses this board for useful information, but I cannot just let things like this go.

[EARTH DRAGON]

Come On monksante, george showed me the book that has master posing the stances so please dont speak of things that you dont know, rember george and I were freinds before he betrayed everyone and started spreading rumors about everyone in the federation. So as far a s the legal thing why dont you look on the 8 step webiste and see that george's name is not even listed as a sifu in 8 step nor is he leagally allowed to advertise 8 step, he lost that battle in court and that is public information. not a rumor, so please speak the other side of the story when you attempt to stick up for him born again christian he claims? but he is the devil himself......

[MonkSanTe]

The devil himself? Oh man, that's great! Seriously, where do you come up with this stuff? I don't think you realize how much I do know on the situation. Which book did he show you, the eight step manuscript he picked up at the library? Yeah, I've heard that's available everywhere. You're a fraud and so is your teacher. I'll leave it at that, I think you do a good enough job at making yourself look ridiculous.

[Syre]

The reason I posted this was to try to get some information about changes in styles or variations of styles.

Somehow this always degenerates into name-calling and politics, none of which has anything to do with what I was asking.

BTW, Earthdragon, you're not listed on the 8step.com site either. What does that mean about you, if that's your measure of authenticity?

And what is this about Master Shyun being a fraud? In what sense is he a fraud?

I would really rather talk about the forms and how they have or have not changed, but if you bring these other questions up, at least address them fully.

[Stacey]

Yeah, Peace in the middle east.

Those who don't cooperate can lick some yeast. ....ewww.

Anyhoo, how bout them forms? How bout comparing form applications from different lineages, boy that out to make things interesting. Might even understand out respective systems a little bit better.

[EARTH DRAGON]

I always try to answer questions with integrity and honesty however their are a few bad apples in the mix that always disract from the question at hand anytime you speak about 8 step and only from one certain group george listjak's cult, I have been told many times by many people just to ignore them but if you knew what they did you would have a hard time turning the other cheek but anyways there are no real changes in the applications just the showing of the 8's again the public book of master wei did not show the real deal for obvious reasons so the more correct postures can be found by master shyun, and in the more advanced levels they are trained much lower.
Do you practice 8 step?

PS As for my name being on the site it is and states that I am a certified rank of sifu, georges name is not even that however at the present time I am in the inactive section due to relocation of my school.

[MonkSanTe]

Please, come join us. We are a kung fu cult that worships the devil. I mean, Sifu Lisjak is the devil himself, right? You know what, I'm sick of your charade and your crape. Sifu Lisjak has been nothing but great to me and my family members. I have gone through some fairly hard times over the last three years, and he has always supported me. Yeah, I'm bad apple, right? Honesty and integrity???? I don't believe that you know the meaning of those words.

PS-You have terrible sentence structure and all around bad grammar skills. Just thought I'd let you know.

[Kiasyd]

*sigh*

Here we go again... round 953 of 8 step people bashing each other...

--Kiasyd

[EARTH DRAGON]

Seeing as how I am not 12 years old I will not give monkesant the satisfaction of including myself in a ridiculous never ending argument....for they know what thier problem is , thats why they are soooo bitter....

[MonkSanTe]

Whatever. I was thinking younger than twelve, based on your writing. Oh well, I no longer feel the need to argue with you, until the next time you post something completely ridiculous.

[EARTH DRAGON]

like what that you know kung fu?????? bahaahha ha