Countering grapplers

[Mr Punch]

Incidentally, no offence to the upstanding educated Kentuckians out there, but I think this thread was born in a dumpster in back of The Hooched Up Samaritan Hospital itself. It was 5 pages when looked last night, adn when I saw it was up to 10 I eagerly clicked on it to see how the persuading of Brother Uki he was smoking the wrong kind of hallucinogens was going, and it's five extra pages of undiluted ****.

Thanks guys.

That would be why he'd have a very hard time taking me down in the first place.

I was waiting with baited breath...

You know, now that I have been hanging out with these Kuntao people for a while, I really don't see modern MMA type takedowns as all that big of a threat anyway. Sure it's a nice tool against Muy Thai people or Boxers who have little take down defense anyway, but I don't really fear it much anymore. There are just too many ways to counter. There are other takedowns that are harder to defend against.

The anticipation was growing...

Kuntao has some very wicked counters to takedowns, though some are a tad to dangerous to "perfect".

Verification from Sanjuro, who's opinion I often agree with... the excitement was reaching fever peak... what is this almighty mysterious kuntao anti-grappling?

Reply]
This is why it is not a bright idea. The shooter will eat an elbow, which will be dropping down and covering the center. This combined with a step back into a slightly side Horse stance (seen in my Tai tzu 32 posture form), or a deep bow stance neutralizes the shoot quite effectively.

Oh **** me. The dreaded step back into horse combined with lethal elbow gag. And I thought Chris Rock was funny.

[unkokusai]

Holy ****.

I don't normally agree with posting PMs, adn I agree with freedom of speech, but ban this ****er now.

Unkle Kusai, please take the trouble to go and kick this redneck's arse! We'll have a KFM whipround for you.

LOL, I wouldn't worry. With an attitude like that I'm sure he gets his ass kicked with great regularity.

[bawang]

lol crazy crackas lmao

[Crushing Step]

Oh **** me. The dreaded step back into horse combined with lethal elbow gag. And I thought Chris Rock was funny.

Serious. And I was willing to hear that there was some new revelation, as in live-tested, non-competition techniques.

Then again, the same people who are going to trust in the almighty elbow to the back are probably also afraid of going to the ground due to all that broken glass laying around in "the streets".

[bawang]

by the way north kung fu has sprawls. its even in the forms in almost every style. its whenever ur slapping the ground with both hands in a gong bu or pu bu. lol at kung fu guys going "omg how i stop da takedown haaaaalp panic lol"

[unkokusai]

by the way north kung fu has sprawls. its even in the forms in almost every style. its whenever ur slapping the ground with both hands in a gong bu or pu bu. lol at kung fu guys going "omg how i stop da takedown haaaaalp panic"

But I haven't found too many kung fu guys who were terribly good at it.

[bawang]

no way!!!!!

[Crushing Step]

But I haven't found too many kung fu guys who were terribly good at it.

Yeah, but they should be. I found something interesting in this guy's essay on militray origins of CMA:

http://casaclub.vtrbandaancha.net/Th...erspective.pdf

In it you will see that while the army was taught "boxing methods", they also gathered together for "wrestling" in a sport environment.

In deciding who has "the deadly" kung fu, is it the guy making up cool moves at home or the guy who survived on the battle field? Apparently somebody in the military thought it was either good training, good recreation, or *gasp* a combination of them both to incorporate wrestling into their curriculum.

BTW anybody who is seriously into MMA, and not fanboys but people who train, will readily admit MMA is a sport. But it is tested against fully resistant, non-compliant opponents, a fact that is often overlooked in many martial arts. (I think this is the biggest wake up call, moreso than grappling itself)

[SoCo KungFu]

BTW anybody who is seriously into MMA, and not fanboys but people who train, will readily admit MMA is a sport. But it is tested against fully resistant, non-compliant opponents, a fact that is often overlooked in many martial arts. (I think this is the biggest wake up call, moreso than grappling itself)

This is what most of the crosstraining crowd here have been saying. This is what everyone is saying is wrong with kung fu today. There aren't too many here actually saying MMA is "the deadly." Though a bunch of scared @$$ fantasy kung fu guys keep pecking at that worm just because they ran out of their tired arguments long ago and have yet to put up but won't seem to shut up.

That and the whole, well there are rules so its not "real" fighting. Because prancing around in hammer pants is......If forms are your thing that's all fine. I learned lots of forms and forgot most all of em, but at least we sparred too. I got the broken ribs to prove it.

What people are claiming is, its the "realistic." Or at least the closest thing to with safety in mind.

The thing is, rules help protect the fighters from SERIOUS harm. **** still f'n hurts to have your chin rocked. But serious injury, who wants that? Anyone that actually trained any sport be it MA or tennis knows nothing sets back progress like an injury. The rules simply allow a fighter to wake up tomorrow and actually keep training. You know, cuz all you need to do is throw some jow on a broken arm...kinda like that broken rib I had. Didn't do too much training with that. Or my broken foot...yeah try training cardio with that.

Yeah, everyone has fanboys these days. But I'm so sick of hearing the "too deadly" kung fu guys talk about how the rules make it fake. Because push hands makes it oh so much more realistic.....

Don't take this post wrong JJMantis I ain't callin on you, you ain't said nothing wrong. I'm just ranting on the tired old crap that the martial arts "upper class" keep spewing. The funny thing is, its the rules (the few that there really are) that actually allow the MMA guys to train as often and as intense as they do while fighting on a more regular basis than most any of us. The very thing that makes MMA so "unrealistic" is what helps their training to make them much more (on average) capable fighters.

[SoCo KungFu]

So anyways countering grapplers....

as Unko would say, go f'n train with some

I don't really see how anybody could not like crosstraining....I mean who doesn't like a buffet table? Keep your hands off my pineapple chicken

[sanjuro_ronin]

I've used a variety of fireman's carries for years in MMA, Dog Bros and sub grappling. What exactly are the chokes and subs you are talking about?

Well, the crucifix for one and this for another:

[sanjuro_ronin]

Verification from Sanjuro, who's opinion I often agree with... the excitement was reaching fever peak... what is this almighty mysterious kuntao anti-grappling?

The counters I have seen from Kuntao and a few other system like Silat and so forth are mostly based on head and neck manipulation, twisting and compression.
They tend to be a tad dangerous and as such, can't really be trained in an "alive "manner" that many think is crucial for development.
That said, I knew a few that can use them very well simple because they have a world of MA experience and as such they don't "need" to drill certain moves in an alive manner.
Do I rate these moves higher than the "typical" counters?
No.

[sanjuro_ronin]

If you like videos:
Right at the beginning, a very interesting way to counter an attempted takedown, possible an attempted single leg or fireman's carry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siOFHUVUEbE

[sanjuro_ronin]

If you like knees:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aag4L...eature=related

Now, you will notice that, to use a knee "counter" effectively you DON'T counter with the knee, you ATTACK with the knee.
Trying to knee someone or elbow them when they are already in on you gets you dumped.

[mkriii]

Unk, you little snot nosed punk....if you notice your the one that started this whole flame war. I didn't make one colored remark until YOU started with the whole Thethro comments and the Eastnowhere High School (I guess thats your way of making fun of Ky). Your an idiot. As I said before, if you think your such a bad ass then do something. Otherwise shut the **** up.