It's the 21st century, by now you should really know that being a "martial artist" has NOTHING to do with being a competent fighterOriginally Posted by MysticNinjaJay
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It's the 21st century, by now you should really know that being a "martial artist" has NOTHING to do with being a competent fighter
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Martial Artists train to fight. Some train more effectively than others. So the question is, did Bruce Lee train in effective fighting techniques? After reading Tao of Jeet Kune Do I would say that Bruce Lee was on the right path to being a competent fighter. Some things he got right, some things he got wrong. He was still developing at the time of his death.
Itinerant practitioner
Bruce Lee trained some martial arts. But was more interested in movies. With the popularity of action martial arts films, that is where Bruce Lee made himself.
Nobody will give you credit for things you didn't do. Whether or not he was on track is irrelevant. The truth is that BL was never a carded fighter and had no interest in pursuing a fight career. He was clearly into making movies and becoming a super star and martial arts was his vehicle towards that. That was his thing.
Kung Fu is good for you.
Banned
I don' t think he cared to compete and with his weight and rules, yeah he would probably lose on that alone never mind if he could or could not do what some say he could. Weight matters.
But you just can't dismiss by saying he was not as good as people think based on what we have seen which really is very little and again, if we judge by him film movement, I stand my ground that NO ONE has achieved what he had on film. NO ONE. Ive seen faster. Ive seen more gymnastic. I've seen all the varied styles and much is very good but they all lack his total package at least captured in that format. And guys that are respect and some as fighters that have stated Bruce was every bit as good as they say he was.
Anyway, JUDO. There was a time it was not under one umbrella. There are still small schools whose linage avoided joining yet they still teach good judo. So, because there was no standardization far enough back, how do we know any of them were any good? There students? Bruce had some rather good guys and they taught some rather good guys. Most never entered into competition. Some just can't do that. Having boxed, Ive seen plenty show up, get hit and leave never to be seen again. Yet, these same guys have no issues fighting in say a bar or whatever. Some can take the gloves and some cant. Id rather get hit with a glove, less chance I get cut and I cut east enough. Less chance I loose teeth and ive had teeth punched out gloveless.
Less chance I hurt my hands and I have hurt my thumbs barefisted. Always hurt my thumbs. Every time I had to throw more than one punch. Never happened gloved.
There was a few guys I knew that would have beat me dead out of the ring that just could not deal with gloves and rules. Yet, they never fought in any competitions.
Anyway, he is what he is. The most known actor and martial artist ever.
Banned
I don' t think he cared to compete and with his weight and rules, yeah he would probably lose on that alone never mind if he could or could not do what some say he could. Weight matters.
But you just can't dismiss by saying he was not as good as people think based on what we have seen which really is very little and again, if we judge by him film movement, I stand my ground that NO ONE has achieved what he had on film. NO ONE. Ive seen faster. Ive seen more gymnastic. I've seen all the varied styles and much is very good but they all lack his total package at least captured in that format. And guys that are respected and some as fighters, that have stated Bruce was every bit as good as they say he was.
Anyway, JUDO. There was a time it was not under one umbrella. There are still small schools whose linage avoided joining yet they still teach good judo. So, because there was no standardization far enough back, how do we know any of them were any good? Thier students? Bruce had some rather good guys and they taught some rather good guys. Most never entered into competition. Some just can't do that. Having boxed, Ive seen plenty show up, get hit and leave never to be seen again. Yet, these same guys have no issues fighting in say a bar or whatever. Some can take the gloves and some cant. Id rather get hit with a glove, less chance I get cut and I cut east enough. Less chance I loose teeth and ive had teeth punched out gloveless.
Less chance I hurt my hands and I have hurt my thumbs barefisted. Always hurt my thumbs. Every time I had to throw more than one punch. Never happened gloved.
There was a few guys I knew that would have beat me dead out of the ring that just could not deal with gloves and rules. Yet, they never fought in any competitions.
Anyway, he is what he is. The most known actor and martial artist ever.
Banned
And think about this. We are posting on a forum that is primarily Traditional Kung Fu. We have no problems believing the legends that abound with this stuff, often sight on seen. Or Master whoever was the most feared kung fu guy in his time only to to find it was all forms stuff. We've all seen that old footage of those 2 Masters that got in the ring to fight and they flat out SUCKED! Yet, here we have on film a guy doing things better than we have yet to see someone else obtain in many ways.
He never fought anyone , he sucked! LOL.
Most fighters after they hang it up. SUCK. They die broke, injured some brain damaged and few remember them unless they were champs. Guess what. 99.9 percent never become champs. They are long forgotten other than maybe being a local hero or terror. And we could say if your local boy never makes to the top, HE SUCKS! Which probably is not true.
One thing I know is BL did not suck. Ive seen it on film. If he lived he would not have died broke. He would have more than likely become the richest actor alive during the 70's and maybe into the 80's. Yet if I put him in the ring with even a third rate heavy weight and said only boxing rules, he is dead! So I guess he sucks then? If I put any of you in that ring, I bet you'll suck too.
Me, Im smart enough to not get in there with a guy that big even if I believe I am the better boxer. I'd be killed. I SUCK!
Itinerant practitioner
Well, Bruce was certainly not an advocate of traditional martial arts. Most of us don't believe legends and such and regard them as allegory or metaphor to a larger lesson to be had, as they usually are that. Fighters come and go. We've all seen the kung fu and tai chi guy get tangled in the face game, yes. repeatedly thanks to some here. lol
The fact stands that Bruce didn't compete on an even amateur level in any type of full contact fighting.
Many fighters don't suck at all after hanging it up, but to everything there is a season. And most fighters have something to hang up when they are done. Movies are not real life and scenes are repeated over and over and over again. Camera angles are used and trust me, at no time was anyone on a martial arts movie set ever in danger of getting knocked out or into an actual fight while working on a film.
Making it to the top is not relevant to one being a fighter. One is that, or is not that. Pretty cut and dried. Bruce did make cool films with kung fu in them. That, he was indeed good at. I really enjoyed the Big Boss (Fists of Fury) and Enter the Dragon. Really good films in the MA genre and they still stand up today for people interested in the genre.
Bruce was an actor who used martial arts as part of his repertoire. Let him have that and there isn't any need to inflate his career into something it wasn't.
Kung Fu is good for you.
Registered User
He was serious about Martial Arts before he got involved in major films. Remember that he was a Martial Arts instructor with only small time childhood acting experience before he got discovered. Certainly he doesn't deserve credit for things he didn't do like professional fighting but I think he had the tools to be a competent fighter even if he didn't prove it.
Well don't forget the Boxing tournament in Hong Kong which is the real topic of the thread (evidence for Gary Elms) not Bruce Lee's overall fighting ability. Let's try to stay on topic please.
Registered User
Actually, yes and no.
Yes, movie fighting and real fighting (whether on the street or in competition) are entirely different animals. However, screen fighting does carry inherent risks and dangers...ask Jackie Chan, Sammo Hung, etc., and anyone who's worked with them, especially during the 1980s, when hard contact was a normal part of the choreography. Mark Houghton, Cynthia Rothrock, Yukari Ohshima, Conan Lee, and countless others who worked in HK films could attest to that. Benny Urquidez stated that while working on his first film, Force:Five, a third-rate American MA movie, he felt it was far more dangerous (to himself) than his actual fights were, due to the nature of filming as opposed to spontaneously reacting during a match.
Of course, during BL's era, screen fights relied mainly on camera angles than actual contact.
Sorry OP for going further OT.
Last edited by Jimbo; 02-25-2015 at 09:31 AM.
Registered User
Care to back that up with sources?
"I'm a highly ranked officer of his tong. HE is the Dragon Head. our BOSS. our LEADER. the Mountain Lord." - hskwarrior
Banned
Not really buddy. I don't care to search for all the crap I read over the years. But, yes there are schools that teach Judo and are not affiliated with any popular sanctioning organization. I think I read prior to in the 1940's anyway that there was no agreed upon ranking system in the US. Not all those clubs joined up. I think maybe because judo and jujitsu were so closey intertwined. Perhaps some did not want to go along with being told how to do things and how to judge rank.
Remember when Kano started his school he wanted all the jujitsu's under one roof. Sport Judo as we know it was but a small faction of that school. And in America is was probably more jujitsu based than sportive at first. After WW2 that changed. Some guys here did not want to go along with it I guess. Probably the same happened in Japan and elsewhere.
By the way, feel free to correct me if I am ever wrong. I wont take offence. I don't mind learning or being corrected. Thanks.
Last edited by boxerbilly; 02-25-2015 at 01:42 PM.
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