Stand your ground

[xcakid]

Yeah, but let us say you are sitting in your locked house, and see someone "suspicious" walking down the street. Do you leave your locked house, get in your car, follow them, and then get out of your locked car to approach them?

If I were part of a neighborhood watch, yes. If not, I will probably just make a not of it.

I have a student who teaches my 7 am classes. He arrived one day at 6:30 am, put down his bag and went through it to look for his keys to the front door. He was approached by someone (turned out to be a new neighbor) who confronted him and said "what are you doing here"

My student rightfully said to a person whom he had never seen before, none of your business

The neighbor then reached for his bag , which is his private property. In NYS you have the legal right to use force to defend your property

The landlord walked by, said "hey!" and shooed away the new neighbor, but it had the potential for a beating..... and it would have been the neighbor's fault

If your student identified himself, none of your business is not the proper response. "I work here, can I help you with something" would have been. Being confrontational from the get go only leads to no good. The neighbor was just looking out.

In everything I have read, Zimmerman never once initiated physical contact.

[YouKnowWho]

A: Draw your gun.
B: I don't carry gun.

Is there a US law that you can't shoot someone who is not armed? From all the western movies that I have watched, nobody was shot if he doesn't carry gun.

[lkfmdc]

If your student identified himself, none of your business is not the proper response. "I work here, can I help you with something" would have been. Being confrontational from the get go only leads to no good. The neighbor was just looking out.

We live in a democracy. I don't have to identify and explain myself to random strangers. A police officer, yes, but not a random stranger.

In everything I have read, Zimmerman never once initiated physical contact.

We'll never know exactly what went down, but we do know he followed him in a car and then got out of the car and approached him....

[lkfmdc]

"Community watch" should call the police, not pretend to be one. There is a reason we have TRAINED and uniformed LEO in society....

And I can also guarantee you that in the history of 911 there has never been this call

"Hi, I see this man. He's white, about 55, wearing a suit. He's got a briefcase and he's just standing there on the corner. Yeah, he looks funny to me, that WHITE guy....."

[bawang]

if you don't support trayvon, you don't have wude. we got doods here training kung fu 20+ years and still supporting oppression. you are the bad guy in the kung fu movies.

[mickey]

Greetings,

"we got doods here training kung fu 20+ years and still supporting oppression.

you have failed totally as a human being and martial artist. you are the bad guy,..."

This very much parallels and explains the very slow transmission of the good (advanced) stuff of TCMA in this country. Even in this century, many would still rather die than to see it in the wrong hands.


mickey

[David Jamieson]

if you don't support trayvon, you don't have wude. we got doods here training kung fu 20+ years and still supporting oppression.

that's just racist.

besides, my kung fu usually oppresses the crap out of whoever I use it on.

[xcakid]

We live in a democracy. I don't have to identify and explain myself to random strangers. A police officer, yes, but not a random stranger.

While true and I agree to certain extent. There is such a thing a manners and common courtesy. Which I believe is still a part of martial arts training. No? Is that not a part of your curriculum?

[David Jamieson]

While true and I agree to certain extent. There is such a thing a manners and common courtesy. Which I believe is still a part of martial arts training. No? Is that not a part of your curriculum?

while I agree with this, it is equally ill mannered to be intrusive and nosy.

[madhusudan]

while I agree with this, it is equally ill mannered to be intrusive and nosy.

True, but one can encounter ill manners without descending to the same level.

It's a matter of desire, maturity, commitment and practice. And even then we make more mistakes than we dare to count. So, the way I see it is, without impugning the young man's character, there is room for improvement in his response, at least in the way the story was related.

Since we all have room for improvement, he is a member of an illustrious club.

[Syn7]

True, but one can encounter ill manners without descending to the same level.

It's a matter of desire, maturity, commitment and practice. And even then we make more mistakes than we dare to count. So, the way I see it is, without impugning the young man's character, there is room for improvement in his response, at least in the way the story was related.

Since we all have room for improvement, he is a member of an illustrious club.

We will never know what happened. If you take GZ's assertions out of the picture, one could just as easily assume that GZ tried to "secure" TM and got whooped for his efforts. What would you do if you were out at night and some creepy dude was trying to put hands on you? Regardless of the words coming from his mouth, my posture would be far more than just defensive.

[madhusudan]

We will never know what happened. If you take GZ's assertions out of the picture, one could just as easily assume that GZ tried to "secure" TM and got whooped for his efforts. What would you do if you were out at night and some creepy dude was trying to put hands on you? Regardless of the words coming from his mouth, my posture would be far more than just defensive.

That post was in relation to the 'opening the gym' situation posted much earlier in the thread. My bad if that wasn't clear.

As far as the GZ/TM case, my take is GZ was wrong for 'stalking' and TM was wrong to attack first. It is a tragedy, and the more so because of how it has been exploited.

With the understanding that Wikipedia is what it is, here's its page on manslaughter:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter

According to that page, I could possibly see it as 'constructive manslaughter' with the criminal act on GZ's part being stalking (but, then, I don't really know the legal definition of stalking either.) I don't see how the case falls into the other definitions of manslaughter, much less murder.

I also see the case from GZ's perspective of getting his head bashed on the concrete, however. This, of course, assumes that what he has related is the truth.

[Yum Cha]

while I agree with this, it is equally ill mannered to be intrusive and nosy.

Funny the take on this. Man, I love it when my neighbour looks after my place, and I have done the same in return. Has community collapsed to the point where its 'nosy' to look after your neighbour? I mean NY is legendary for its a-holes, a matter of pride indeed, but hey, if David's dude had introduced himself, thanked the neighbour for his concern and made an acquaintance, would he loose his NY creds? Be deemed weak, and immediately eaten by wolves?

Of course, in NY, maybe the neighbour is just jealous because he was casing the joint...

[Syn7]

I don't see anything wrong with protecting person or property of those who are unable or absent. But come on... there is a balance here. There is a line between good citizen and douchbag interloper.

[Yum Cha]

I don't see anything wrong with protecting person or property of those who are unable or absent. But come on... there is a balance here. There is a line between good citizen and douchbag interloper.

One thing we learned from the Zimmerman trial, pays to be polite to strangers, even if you are right.