If you don't teach forms ...

[YouKnowWho]

If you are a TCMA teacher and you don't teach forms, what will you teach? What will you call your style?

Can you teach and preserve your WC (or praying mantis, longfist, ...) system without teaching forms?

[PalmStriker]

I have never practiced anything as a long form. Very short forms consisting of a half dozen movements containing techniques but not mix and match combinations. This is a practice I gravitated to many years ago so I really don't think of doing otherwise. In teaching I would also promote this practice but have never cared to teach what I know, designed for my own use.

[YouKnowWho]

If we look at the boxing system:

1 - jab,
2 - cross,
3 - hook,
4 - uppercut,

If you always start from jab, and also assume you alway alternative your left and right hands, for 4 moves combo, you will have 1 (jab only) x 3 (can be cross, or hook, or uppercut), x 3 (can be jab, or hook, or uppercut) x 3 (can be cross, or hook, or uppercut) = 27 different 4 moves combos. If you want, you can link it ito 27 x 4 = 108 moves boxing form (same number of moves as the Yang taiji long form). If you don't care about form, you can always have just 27 drills.

Of course if you use one hand to do multiple strikes such as low hook, medium hook, high hook, you will have more drills.

Why can't we use "permutation method" to teach TCMA? Since not all permutation will make sense, we will have less number of combos come out of this mathematics model. Of course we can apply this into defense, footwork, kicks, lock, throws, ... or mix of all those.

[Howard]

not a teacher per se....but guess would be same as now - techniques, combinations, drills, apparatus, combat ....no difference ....and name would be same: Tongbei Quan (we don't care too much about forms)...

[tc101]

If you are a TCMA teacher and you don't teach forms, what will you teach? What will you call your style?

Can you teach and preserve your WC (or praying mantis, longfist, ...) system without teaching forms?

There is a branch of wing chun from Ku Lo village that does not teach forms and instead teaches through a series of points.

[bawang]

forms is 1% of what you teach in real kung fu. example:

"when to hit with confidence

1. hit the young, 2. hit the old. 3. hit the one with shaking hands, 4. hopping alot 5. lowers the head 6. changes stance 7. distracted 8. slow hands"

Why can't we use "permutation method" to teach TCMA? Since not all permutation will make sense, we will have less number of combos come out of this mathematics model. Of course we can apply this into defense, footwork, kicks, lock, throws, ... or mix of all those.

of course northern kung fu has drills with jab cross kick. chinese people are not retarded.

[SoCo KungFu]

forms is 1% of what you teach in real kung fu. example:

"when to hit with confidence

1. hit the young, 2. hit the old. 3. hit the one with shaking hands, 4. hopping alot 5. lowers the head 6. changes stance 7. distracted 8. slow hands"



northern kung fu uses permutation method. its called five elements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B292wwnyCqs

[PalmStriker]

Lol !

[mooyingmantis]

If you are a TCMA teacher and you don't teach forms, what will you teach? What will you call your style?

Can you teach and preserve your WC (or praying mantis, longfist, ...) system without teaching forms?

In mantis, forms pass the traditions and movements taught in the last 150 years. Though all the strategies and theories of the system can be taught without forms.

[SPJ]

If you are a TCMA teacher and you don't teach forms, what will you teach? What will you call your style?

Can you teach and preserve your WC (or praying mantis, longfist, ...) system without teaching forms?

Since we walk with one step at a time,

we learn or drill one move or one technique at a time.

1. single move/technique.

2. combo of a few moves/techniques

3. free sparring with learned move/technique.

[bawang]

In mantis, forms pass the traditions and movements taught in the last 150 years. Though all the strategies and theories of the system can be taught without forms.

shaolin kung fu has over 50 combinations of jab and cross. if people just stop stop obsessing over forms, they can find real kung fu easily.

if someone just teach you forms, he is worthless and his kung fu is worthless. paying thousands of dollars to learn forms for 10 years is a horrible waste of time and money, a horrible waste of your life, you can learn everything he knows from a dvd in 30 minutes.

[Yum Cha]

Forms are for leaning. Once you have 'learned' the forms, what do you do?
And when I say learned the forms, I mean 10,000 times kinda learned, not 'remembered'.
Palmstriker pointed out an obvious conclusion, you practice what you need to fight, your consolidated 'favorites' or 'proven' techniques, and you hone them 10,000 times.
You practice Kungs, small exercises that may change the way your body works, so you can do some of your key techniques better...and better....and better....

There are a couple of different takes on 'forms' as well. Some are just a collection of moves, combinations, etc. They train you in technique, co-ordination, stamina, etc.
Other forms train core skills, which can be applied to any technique... i.e a form that teaches speed, as opposed to learning the 9 punch combination, 1,2,3,4,5,6....etc. Or one that teaches breath management through an extra exerting series of exercises.

Some forms contained both at one point, but the subtlety was lost by 'crippled children'.
Just to add, forms practice has a whole spectrum beyond fighting as well, and while some people may pass it up, I've continued to enjoy forms training, and probably always will.

[bawang]

Some forms contained both at one point, but the subtlety was lost by 'crippled children'.
Just to add, forms practice has a whole spectrum beyond fighting as well, and while some people may pass it up, I've continued to enjoy forms training, and probably always will.

i also enjoy forms. i just cant pay 10 dollars an hour for it ever again.

[Yum Cha]

i also enjoy forms. i just cant pay 10 dollars an hour for it ever again.

<shurgs> Yea, I get it. I do forms training in my own time mostly now days, only a bit at training, when I have some time.

[Miqi]

i also enjoy forms. i just cant pay 10 dollars an hour for it ever again.

That's wisdom right there.