Last edited by JPinAZ; 12-09-2011 at 03:30 PM.
What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90
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I do neither PB wing chun or CSL wing chun but I wish them both well.
It's not uncommom for non wing chunners to misunderstand some actions of some wing chun folks.
What PB is doing is not a slap fest. The power is there but is controlled-ditto for AO's chops.
In both cases as much power as is needed can be turned on.
joy chaudhuri
really and you know this because you have crossed hands with them both Joy, or because you can recognise the power in their structure?
sincere question because i have seen plenty of people look good against students and in demos who appear to have great structure but who come apart in full contact fights under real pressure, i tend to believe Alan more because he and his guys have video evidence that they can produce that power when needed
PB nor his guys seem to show this yet manage to talk about it endlessly (not PB but his students i should clarify)
probably because you have a desperate need to be believed mate
And only my friends call me frosty Kevin
i think we all wonder why you respond to so many people telling them they dont do wing chun, cant fight etc yet can only post clips of your teacher having a slap fest i mean if it bothers you that much to respond why not just post the clips...or go and meet phil
Likewise I have had PB in my face too just staying facing him is hard enough for me ...I felt like a revolving door trying to find my center. He showed me my errors, a long list
I too respect Alan for his fighting. BUT the unseen VT , ergo my posts are to SEE VT is not so unheard of.
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No- I have not crossed hands with either--and yes and after my years of martial arts and martial sport and experience one can see things. Both appear to have their strengths and weaknesses.
But they are not preaching to me and I am not preaching to them.Of course being face to face is a different thing, you never quite know about real timing and speed from videos- but this is a discussion board- so some educated guesses can take place.
I don't pay much attention to the tiresome and not very articulate marketing by two of PB's followers
joy chaudhuri
I am more than happy to hear people views on wing chun, but as I have seen the styles they talk about first hand - I feel I have more insight to what they can and can't do with wing chun. The guys on this forum that have the most to say about what I do have never had any first hand experience of my system. So it is funny to me when they say things like I am missing the basic principles of wing chun. It is more that very funny. Really with so much missing we can have so much success. Crazy to think about what will happen when we get it right.
I post videos as lots of people email me asking for clips and I also think its good to show wing chun from a system that has a different take of how to use the style. Our body structure is different. I can say that due to 25 years training in wing chun and having checked out so many styles of wing chun around the world.
Its the small minded people that have so much to say but never show anything or prove anything that I find boring to listen too.
Last edited by Alan Orr; 12-09-2011 at 05:57 PM.
Yes agreed. My guys have add over 150 Fights now - MMA from amateur to Pro. Boxing, Kickboxing. I teach Professional MMA fighters who would not come to me if it didn't work. We have many championship Belts, at the Chi Sao event we won 8 out of 9 Golds. None of my guys even post of forums unless someone is talking about us, even then its mostly me that will come on as say something. We are not big forum talkers as we are doing it not talking about it!
We found our answers from my teacher Robert Chu and from testing and gaining feedback in the real world.
Last edited by Alan Orr; 12-09-2011 at 05:58 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddha_Fist View Post
The question of what defines a boxing method as being Ving Tsun has its merits though. I'm no fan of people who claim that Ving Tsun can take all shapes and forms, and that you can call anything you want Ving Tsun.
I think that the key lies in what Sanjuro brought up in the first page, about Ving Tsun being principle or (I prefer this term) strategy based.
Traditionally there were Ving Tsun Kuen Kuit providing guidance on the strategies that are pursued. A few examples:
Loi Lau, Hoi Song, Lat Sau Jik Chung - Intercept what comes, pursue what goes, attack instinctively when the hands are free
Lin Siu Dai Da - Simultaneous attack and defense
The forms provide guidance on the mechanics while reinforcing habits that are imbued with the strategies. We are introduced to facing (Chiu Ying) right from the get-go through the basic stance, Yi Ji Kim Yuen Ma. Same goes with the punch traveling a straight line (economy of motion) without excessive shoulder engagement (which hints towards the engine behind all actions). You work hard to maintain balance throughout Chum Kiu, while going through quick hip rotations, stepping, etc., so it makes little sense to compromise these habits by working against them in Chi-Sao by leaning on your opponent. Bong Sao is performed in a flick, never held up for long periods of times, as we don't want to remain in a defensive and reactionary position, but rather transition immediately over to the attack (Lin Siu Dai Da). And the list goes on and on...
You can judge whether something is good Ving Tsun based on whether the practitioner adheres to these strategies. Pak Sao, Bong Sao, Jut Sao, etc. are just supporting tools to the main action, the attack. Of course, the bottom line will be whether it works in a fight. But the bottom line is not what defines Ving Tsun. If the bottom line defined whether something is Ving Tsun, then Muay Thai could be called Ving Tsun.
People claim that a video is just a video and that it does not show "what is really going on". I think that on the contrary, videos do give us the opportunity to see in action whether and how the practitioner adheres to Ving Tsun strategies under the given set of circumstances.I stand by my response to Buddah fist....time spent is no guarantee you will understand either.Originally Posted by k gledhill , exactly...... good post ! depends where guys are on the learning curve to be able to comprehend what they are seeing as examples...
I attended a seminar years ago with representatives from a number of WC/VT systems (WSL/CSL/IC/etc) and Alan was presenting his systems view of how to apply the principles. Now I did a vietnamiese and a HK version of WC in my younger days and found nothing wrong with what I saw in spite of Alan having a different approach than my sifus did. I would suggest that you might not think things were so '''obvious'' should you attend a seminar or drop by Alan's club and have a taste of what his hands feel like. Things are not always as obvious as you might think when being a video critic.
And by the way.. I have no affiliation to the WC community anymore so I have no stake in any systems approach. I do recognise good application of principles and that is more important than anything else to me...
R