What's wrong with sport fighting?

[TenTigers]

My point is that there seems to be a "disabling strikes" mentality that is part of TMAs and is mostly nonsense. Point striking, dim mak, striking the groin, eyes, throat, spine, is all theoretical crap.

What works is what you see in sport fighting. Are people "disabled" by strikes in sport fighting? Yup. You see KOs, liver shots, etc. And people are able to realistically practice them.

Yes and No...I don't think anyone here is talking about point striking and dim mak.
But most of us have had experience with throat, groin,eyes and spine shots, on both ends-giving and recieving. (if you spar/fight long enough, you will eventually get nailed) I don't think anyone who has, agrees with your point of it being theoretical.
Let me also add, that "hitting someone on the button," and a liver shot, as well as eye, throat,groin and spine ARE point striking and dim-mak by definition.

[pateticorecords]

Yes and No...I don't think anyone here is talking about point striking and dim mak.
But most of us have had experience with throat, groin,eyes and spine shots, on both ends-giving and recieving. (if you spar/fight long enough, you will eventually get nailed) I don't think anyone who has, agrees with your point of it being theoretical.
Let me also add, that "hitting someone on the button," and a liver shot, as well as eye, throat,groin and spine ARE point striking and dim-mak by definition.

I am with you on this one... unless you have performed or been on the receiving end of pressure point strikes you wouldn't understand it.

Most people talk about them, say they train in them, but they can't accurately strike the points in a "live" situation. Now, if you study the point clusters, the ones with most exposure, and learn how to strike them while sparring it becomes more of what it is intended to be.

Have you ever gotten a charlie horse when struck to the side of the thigh? Have you been kicked in the sciatic nerve by a good Muy Thai fighter?
Have you been sticken in the brachial plexus and felt your world slipping away? Has any one jammed a finger into your vagus synapse (on the carotid artery) ?

Those are all examples of pressure points in action...

[David Jamieson]

I think a lot of people know about the points on the body to activate to get the pain compliance happening.

driving the elbows into the inguinal crease to slip guard for instance, or driving your unshaven chin into a guys eye socket or your thumb up an armpit, etc etc. All this is done in wrestling, never mind in striking.

so people probably get tripped on the broad array of what dim mak is and then comes the sea of info and dis-info all at the same time.

when that happens, a lot of people just give it a wash and do what they were gonna do. One of the big barriers between new modern ma-ists and old school tma-ists is the difference in terminology relating to the same attack or defense.

there is a lot of cryptic poetry still associated with traditional martial arst descriptions of techniques or odd names for techniques.

meh, what are you gonna do? If it works, it works. Nothing in martial techniques works all the time every time.

[pateticorecords]

I think a lot of people know about the points on the body to activate to get the pain compliance happening.

driving the elbows into the inguinal crease to slip guard for instance, or driving your unshaven chin into a guys eye socket or your thumb up an armpit, etc etc. All this is done in wrestling, never mind in striking.

so people probably get tripped on the broad array of what dim mak is and then comes the sea of info and dis-info all at the same time.

when that happens, a lot of people just give it a wash and do what they were gonna do. One of the big barriers between new modern ma-ists and old school tma-ists is the difference in terminology relating to the same attack or defense.

there is a lot of cryptic poetry still associated with traditional martial arst descriptions of techniques or odd names for techniques.

meh, what are you gonna do? If it works, it works. Nothing in martial techniques works all the time every time.

I have been teaching my kids pressure points, sequences, chi na, etc for a while and now that my 17 year old son is on the high school wrestling team he has been able to implement it into his ground work and has been using it to debilitate his opponents...

funny thing is that I have 2 teenagers and when they are bugging each other the complaints that we hear are " mom/dad, adrian is hitting my pressure points again" lol

[sanjuro_ronin]

One thing though, you will notice that as system get more and more practical ( they train or fight full contact more), the number of points gets less and less till you only have the ones that work the most consistently across the board.
To me dim mak is a "sniper analogy" for obvious reasons
"Aim big miss big, Aim small, miss small".

[pateticorecords]

One thing though, you will notice that as system get more and more practical ( they train or fight full contact more), the number of points gets less and less till you only have the ones that work the most consistently across the board.
To me dim mak is a "sniper analogy" for obvious reasons
"Aim big miss big, Aim small, miss small".

I believe that you should progress with the times and adapt it to what is currently happening... not omit it.
I use it in sparring both on the ground as well as on my feet, if you know what to do and how to execute on it... IT works

Oh, and I am not talking about the "death touch" or the "no touch knock out"... I am referring to the usage of the pressure points to inflict pain or incapacitate the motor skills of your opponent based on the cycle of destruction

[TenTigers]

I believe that you should progress with the times and adapt it to what is currently happening... not omit it.
I use it in sparring both on the ground as well as on my feet, if you know what to do and how to execute on it... IT works

Oh, and I am not talking about the "death touch" or the "no touch knock out"... I am referring to the usage of the pressure points to inflict pain or incapacitate the motor skills of your opponent based on the cycle of destruction

yes and no. I agree with your point as far as adapt rather than omit, lodr knows, I am always saying, "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater," But as far as striking points, I go by the K.I.S.S. method. I go for points and clusters rather than set-ups in accordance with the yin/yang, five elements theory. (not that I don't study and practice them, but I am talking about expediant means/high percentage)
I was really impressed with an article I read years ago by Isshinryu instructor, Ed Brown, who also BTW was trained in IP. He says,"I don't want to be concerned with trying to hit a point the size of a dime on someone in a fight. I want to be able to hit him hard enough anywhere on the body and drop him."(the guy punches TRAINS fer chrissakes!)
I like that .

[sanjuro_ronin]

I believe that you should progress with the times and adapt it to what is currently happening... not omit it.
I use it in sparring both on the ground as well as on my feet, if you know what to do and how to execute on it... IT works

Oh, and I am not talking about the "death touch" or the "no touch knock out"... I am referring to the usage of the pressure points to inflict pain or incapacitate the motor skills of your opponent based on the cycle of destruction

Pain compliancy has its place, just not in the world of full on fighting.
My point was that as many MA evolved from the realm of dealing with "untrained people" into the realm of dealing with "trained fighters" the stuff that didn't wok consistently was left behind for the stuff that did.
Why work on something that works 10% of the time when you can work on what works 90 or 90%?

[pateticorecords]

yes and no. I agree with your point as far as adapt rather than omit, lodr knows, I am always saying, "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater," But as far as striking points, I go by the K.I.S.S. method. I go for points and clusters rather than set-ups in accordance with the yin/yang, five elements theory. (not that I don't study and practice them, but I am talking about expediant means/high percentage)
I was really impressed with an article I read years ago by Isshinryu instructor, Ed Brown, who also BTW was trained in IP. He says,"I don't want to be concerned with trying to hit a point the size of a dime on someone in a fight. I want to be able to hit him hard enough anywhere on the body and drop him."(the guy punches TRAINS fer chrissakes!)
I like that .

I agree. My point is actually that there are "point clusters" that can be struck regardless of the time of day, yin/yang cycle, etc. that are effective. The concept is to have it available in your arsenal and to be able to use it when necessary.

[pateticorecords]

Pain compliancy has its place, just not in the world of full on fighting.
My point was that as many MA evolved from the realm of dealing with "untrained people" into the realm of dealing with "trained fighters" the stuff that didn't wok consistently was left behind for the stuff that did.
Why work on something that works 10% of the time when you can work on what works 90 or 90%?

I am in agreement with you as well... again nothing completely works 100% of the time, we have to adjust to the variables and find new ways to improve upon it.

[goju]

ROFLMFAO!!!
funniest thing I've heard all week...

addendum: I'm using it!

Lol **** i was gonna take it!

[goju]

finger strikes work fine with out somone breaking their finger

you see it often in mma sometimes not so accidentaly like chucks thumb rake he did on tito

[Eric Olson]

I have been teaching my kids pressure points, sequences, chi na, etc for a while and now that my 17 year old son is on the high school wrestling team he has been able to implement it into his ground work and has been using it to debilitate his opponents...

I used to do the same thing with my friend who was a wrestler through junior high and highschool.

There's a pressure point right behind the jaw and in front of the ear. If you dig in on that pressure point it's hard to for the opponent to "resist" it.

(This is where Knifefighter would have chimed in...RIP.....)

EO

[sanjuro_ronin]

I used to do the same thing with my friend who was a wrestler through junior high and highschool.

There's a pressure point right behind the jaw and in front of the ear. If you dig in on that pressure point it's hard to for the opponent to "resist" it.

(This is where Knifefighter would have chimed in...RIP.....)

EO

Just remember to immobilise the head or it is very easy to resist and counter.
I wouldn't recommend you doing that in an all out fight, but just fooling around is fine.
FYI, that little point is used by some with the point of their elbow when they do a "forearm press to the face" in MMA.

[lkfmdc]

"Dim Mak" is such a over used and mis understood thing, geezzz, it sort of drives me crazy....

I was 13 and doing shotokan, I got hit with a reverse punch to the solar plexis, my diaphrahm (sp?) spasmed and I felt like I couldn't breath, scary crap... noting "chi" related or "dim mak" about it, and the kid that did it probably had no idea he was doing it

And in the 30 plus years since it has NEVER HAPPENED AGAIN

We asked CTS about "dim mak" once, he said "kick the guy in the nuts / poke him in the eye" - nothing mysterious about it

You hit someone hard in the liver, they are going down, period

Same with the kidneys

The problem is, you have to hit the spot, hit it HARD and do it while the other guy is fighting as well