Gracie gets beat...

[AmanuJRY]

No more perfect record...what do y'all think about that?

[Chum Kil]

Glad to see Matt win. He's a Human Pit Pull, LOL

[anerlich]

Props to him for continuing to put it on the line in the ring, rather than basing his reputation on schoolboy fights on HK rooftops mid last century. Props to Matt also.

Whether his record is "perfect" is open to argument ... Wallid Ismail choked him out once in a gi match, and Sakuraba and Yoshida gave him a tremendously hard time in MMA.

Whatever, everyone gets beat eventually. Everyone has bad days, everyone gets old. Muhammad Ali got hammered toward the end of his career, but IMO there are few if any fighters who command the same respect.

[AmanuJRY]

I have to agree that Gracie deserves props for even stepping in the ring, instead of resting on the glory of his past. And, he took defeat like a real stand-up guy (no pun intended)

Besides, he said he has a few fights left in him.

BTW...anerlich, are you guys getting the Henry Rollins Show down there???

[Jeff Bussey]

For anyone who is interested in seeing it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tXpd...ughes%20gracie

[Vajramusti]

Thanks for the link. Kudos to both the contestants. Hughes' athleticism is very evident- a champion college wrestler who adjusted to ground and pound. Royce's patience and grace under pressure is also evident. He did create that house-though now there is a new and younger generation. Bound to happen eventually in spectator sports- whether its the ring or the octagon.

joy chaudhuri

[sihing]

I don't know if it was strictly a matter of the younger generation beating the older gen. Hugh's has natural gifts, strength is one of them, he's super strong and combine his natural aggressiveness, fighting skills, speed, and hard working ethic, and you have a very hard man to beat in the competitive arena. Personally, I think Royce is better now than he was in his hay days of the UFC. He's been fighting pretty steady they say, and he's cross training more. So to me, the Royce of today would fight Hughs better than the Royce of the early/mid 90's, but I'm no expert.

It would be cool to see Rickson fight him, that would be interesting fight.

James

[Jeff Bussey]

Hey Joy,
No problem. The fight was on Sat night and when I woke up on Sunday morning (5AM) it was there. Gotta love the internet.

Royce separated his mind from his body. No flinching, or even an shred of discomfort. Man, I was tapping for him when I saw what Matt was doing to his arm

J

[AmanuJRY]

Man, I was tapping for him when I saw what Matt was doing to his arm

J

For real!

I realized I was holding my breath, ready to flinch at the snap...Gracie looked as calm as ever...mad props for that.

[Knifefighter]

I firmly believe that catch as catch can wrestling is a BETTER grappling system when all is said and done - because it's principles, strategies, and techniques offer more ways to control your opponent and finish him off - without having to play the dangerous guard game. Period.

LOL!!!

Not being able to use the guard is exactly what got Royce beaten in that fight.

Royce couldn't get Hughes into his guard, so he reverted to the very strategy that catch espouses, going to the knees. This resulted in Hughes taking his back, putting the hooks in, and getting the win with strikes from back control.

Hughes would have had a MUCH harder time beating Royce if Royce would have been able to guard him up.

If anything, that fight showed the inferiority of catch strategy.

[reneritchie]

Royce was a skinny Brazilian kid who used great strategy and many years of training to beat bigger, stronger opponents.

Matt Hughes is an elite level athlete who knows pretty much what Royce knows.

Props to Royce for taking the fight, it was Everest to begin with, but gotta admire the will!

(Catch?? Sigh )

[reneritchie]

BTW- Lister's fight was slick. Now he had a dangerous guard...

Lotta chokes on that card...

[Nick Forrer]

man, the Gracie's have been WAY OVER THE TOP with their self congratulatory routine for TOO LONG!!!

They're not invinciple - and their system isn't invincible either.

I firmly believe that catch as catch can wrestling is a BETTER grappling system when all is said and done - because it's principles, strategies, and techniques offer more ways to control your opponent and finish him off - without having to play the dangerous guard game. Period.

Victor, seriously......... go to Renzo Gracies sometime and roll no gi.....see how your catch does against their *inferior* martial art. Then come and tell the forum about it.

[Liddel]

I realized I was holding my breath, ready to flinch at the snap...Gracie looked as calm as ever...mad props for that.

If you watch the post match IV's with Hughes, he stated that he felt it snap (and randy and Joe say they witnessed as much in the Commentary)

Matt was saying at that point he was just waiting for Big John to hear it and get in to stop the fight.

I dont think it got that far, Gracie was super calm - seemed to use the arm fine after ?
but this for me is another example of locks and holds in grappling that dont always provide the desired results with certain individuals meaning
Nothing is certain, so be prepared to adapt and punish

In Royce's Post match IV he wasnt a happy camper, stating "im dissapointed with my preformance" ....My bet...He'll be back.

PS
Notice how from time to time when we see a good guy loose, people come out and say - well he was against a much bigger guy but he showed heart etc etc.....

I just find it interesting that when a VT guy looses in vids posted around the net we dog on him about style etc offering our opinion as to why he lost, lack of this, not enough that, shoulda coulda woulda.....
But most of the time (in my experience) the Ving Tsun fighter was alot smaller than the person he was fighting

Just an observation.

[Ultimatewingchun]

"Not being able to use the guard is exactly what got Royce beaten in that fight...

...If anything, that fight showed the inferiority of catch strategy." (Knifefighter)



***LOL.

There are numerous reasons why Royce lost: He has no real standup skills and Matt's standup (and superior strength) was good enough to close in and take Royce to the fence - and from there to the floor (when Royce threw an elbow when he shouln't have and Matt slipped under his armpit) - and once on the floor Matt immediately got a dominant top position.

He then used an excellent combination of wrestling rides and adjustments to maintain side control while inflicting lots of pain with a CATCH based figure 4 arm lock...

while Royce desparately tried for guard and eventually got half guard...but BECAUSE wrestling from a top dominant position is so much more effective than being on your back - nothing was gonna save Royce by this point in the fight - he had been worn down and was in SERIOUS trouble by the time Hughes trapped one of his arms with his leg...

so Royce had no choice but to try and turn in if there was to be ANY chance of escape - but Matt being the good wrestler that he is - just took his back and finished him.

So Why did Royce lose?

No real stand up skills (which translated into being backed up against the fence followed by weak defensive fighting when in the clinch) - no real anti takedown skills (which is a must against a quality wrestler like Hughes), and no real ESCAPE skills when he was taken down and put into cross chest position by Matt (ie.- bridging, roll outs, etc.)

It's the whole mindset that got him beat - because the best grappling requires either being the man who takes the other man down - or stopping his attempts to take you down - or escaping IMMEDIATELY if you are taken down and find yourself on the bottom...(unless there's a sub just staring you in the face and asking to be taken)...

but it's not fighting for a more "efficient" bottom position.

That's what guys like Hughes understands and the Gracie's don't...and that's what Couture was all about...Sakuraba, the new and improved Josh Barnett, (who's become a student of a great cacc old-timer named Billy Robinson), etc.