SOW CHOY training by Chuck Lidell

[hskwarrior]

I agree. It is a difficult one to block if you are caught in range and the punch is in full swing, as it can easily collapse one's structure and/or break a blocking limb, on contact.

HW108

the sow choy can destroy someones guard, structure, and the limb...yes. doesn't that sound like it would be EFFECTIVE?

[Drake]

Some years ago I was shown a version of that punch where it is preceded by a swinging uppercut style kung fu punch and another which I cannot recall. I know that it was within the context of a very fast three punch, forward moving, continuous combination. This was just a quick demonstration of a hybrid, yet genuine, kung fu style.

I remember that it was kind of overwhelming as the perceived opening one would expect from such a wide punch were not there, as the previous two punches had closed the "opportunities", as if setting up the opponent for a haymaker.

Is this the purpose of the technique as studied by you?

Anyway, as I saw it, it functioned in a very effective manner. I am relatively new at the current style that I practice but I suspect that I will be introduced to similar techniques as the system has a long range feel to it as compared to the Chow Gar and Wing Chun, in which I have more experience.

Sorry... missed the post. My bad. Unless someone can correct me, I don't think the sow choi is ever used by itself or as an opener. I suppose it could be, but I've always seen it as part of an aggressive assault. Sometimes a poon kiu precedes it, but normally it's the strike that ends the confrontation. Kup choi is similar, as it is a downward "stamping fist" (rough translation) aimed at a KO strike as well.

If you watch some CLF fighters, you'll see they look almost like the Tazmanian Devil from Looney Tunes. A whirlwind of ouch barreling into you.

[hskwarrior]

in the video i created of CHOY LEE FUT in the movies, you can see the Sow Choy all over. Lee Koon Hung does a nice one at 53 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgjYAQyGr8c

[hskwarrior]

at 09 secs of this video you can see brother Gary Shambrooke hit the guy with a sow choy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNMVO...eature=related

[Hardwork108]

Nope, you have learned techniques that David Ross teaches his students

I did not learn the technique!

It was demonstrated to me or "shown" to me!

Here is what I said:

Some years ago I was shown a version of that punch.....

And then this:

The sifu who showed (not taught) it did not describe it as Lama Pai, where similar techniques exist. He mentioned a hybrid style and even named it, however I don't remember the actual name.

- you even said the technique was 'overwhelming' (your words) .

I see that you conveniently forgot that I put "kind of" before the word "overwhelming". Of course, that does not take away from the fact that this is a powerful technique for which both Chow Gar and Wing Chun have counters.

According to you, David and his students are Glorified Kickboxers. Therefore you are a glorified kickboxer.

Your logic is flawed, not least for the fact that you seem to be supporting Dave Ross....LOL!

David Ross knows more about TCMA than you could ever hope to learn.

Yes we can see the depths of his TCMA knowledge from his "contribution" to the subject matter of this thread.........

The fact that your sifu "told you the name of the style",

I did not say he was my sifu.

but you can't remember it tells a lot about your retention skills.

It was some years ago and it was a short demonstration, however, I retained enough to know that it was not Lama Pai nor CLF, but a hybrid style!


So, you try and retain that fact too, OK?

Having seen you using what I have said in this very thread in an out of context manner, makes the criticism of my retention skills a ridiculous statement.

Maybe that's one reason your Wing __un sifu disowned you?

I see that you are repeating Dave Ross's lies. Well at least you do a good job "retaining" dishonest statements.

By the way, what is Wing_un?

Is it some kind of pseudo-kung fu and Glorified Kickboxing hybrid, Dave came up with? LOL, LOL, LOL!

[Drake]

Ok guys... not here, please.

[Hardwork108]

Sorry... missed the post. My bad.

No problem.

Unless someone can correct me, I don't think the sow choi is ever used by itself or as an opener. I suppose it could be, but I've always seen it as part of an aggressive assault.

That makes sense, and the combination is what was shown to me. I am not sure if it was a "standard" combination, or something peculiar to that hybrid style. All I can say is that as open as those moves look in pictures, in actual life, the attacker (and his central line) is pretty well protected.

If you watch some CLF fighters, you'll see they look almost like the Tazmanian Devil from Looney Tunes. A whirlwind of ouch barreling into you.

I have seen them, and these type of distinct together many varieties of techniques and approaches within the TCMAs, stand testament to the richness and profoundness of knowledge encompassed within traditional kung fu styles.

[Dragonzbane76]

This was my first and only point, I can see this technique being effective in mma, combat sports, a bit of wushu but against a decent streetfighter,boxer, not a chance

I think you miss the total concept of what i stated. Meaning that in any given situation there is always the chance you'll get the sh!t knocked outta you. Doesn't pretain to just MMA/kickboxing/sport arena and etc. could be street, war, etc. Every technique has it's value, we only have to motivate ourselves to use it in the right concept.

[CLFLPstudent]

Ok guys... not here, please.

sorry - no problems

[Hardwork108]

Thanks Drake. I was telling him to get lost too (he was the one who started the unprovoked attacks), but in my own "subtle" way, however, I guess he prefers to listen to you.

[esox]

forums are meant to be arena's for people with various opinions can come together and discuss, rarely seems possible here, so many threads end with childish postering

[Drake]

No problem.


That makes sense, and the combination is what was shown to me. I am not sure if it was a "standard" combination, or something peculiar to that hybrid style. All I can say is that as open as those moves look in pictures, in actual life, the attacker (and his central line) is pretty well protected.



I have seen them, and these type of distinct together many varieties of techniques and approaches within the TCMAs, stand testament to the richness and profoundness of knowledge encompassed within traditional kung fu styles.

Well, if you look at CLF, it's a hybrid of styles, due primarily to how Chan Heung was taught. Three different teachers, etc etc. The best way to describe it is as a combination of northern and southern.

[Jimbo]

This was my first and only point, I can see this technique being effective in mma, combat sports, a bit of wushu but against a decent streetfighter,boxer, not a chance

Any technique can work if it's set up right, and applied by the right person in the right circumstance. Even against a street fighter or boxer. Anyone can be caught with anything if it's set up correctly. As mentioned by others, the sow choy (and kup choy) are not meant to be applied at the outset, but as a finisher. They can be used long, or they can be shortened to fit the situation. It can also catch you from a blind side.

That's ok. Many people underestimate arts like CLF or "CLF-type punches/strikes" based on watching some demos, etc. There's a lot more to CLF than meets the eye.

[esox]

Any technique can work if it's set up right, and applied by the right person in the right circumstance. Even against a street fighter or boxer. Anyone can be caught with anything if it's set up correctly. As mentioned by others, the sow choy (and kup choy) are not meant to be applied at the outset, but as a finisher. They can be used long, or they can be shortened to fit the situation. It can also catch you from a blind side.

That's ok. Many people underestimate arts like CLF or "CLF-type punches/strikes" based on watching some demos, etc. There's a lot more to CLF than meets the eye.

Yeah well maybe youtube doesn't help, we must all watch some video's of our own styles and cringe, I know I do, and I wouldn't want my own style to be judged on youtube footage

[blj_swmo]

DIRECTLY with Ed Parker himself. He used to film the Lau Bun lineage performances in L.A. and he also used to come to us to get our Dit Da Jow.

From what i hear, their forms....number four or something of that nature is directly based off of Lau Bun's material.

Early Ed Parker & Tracy's Kenpo schools do have Southern Kung Fu forms in their curricula. From around late '79-82 (when I was a teenager) I studied Japanese sport karate with a VERY skilled instructor who had Dan grades in several arts including an art called "Chinese Kenpo".

My Japanese Sport Karate instructor learned "Chinese Kenpo" in Austin, TX (while there on weekends serving in the Texas Air National Guard) from a guy who was an Ed Parker Black Belt in LA in the early 60's. The Tracy Brothers hired him away from EP- not hard to do as EP NEVER PAID his instructors for their time (or so I have been told by several students of EP). My instructor's teacher later taught in San Francisco for the Tracy's and cross trained in several Chinese Kung styles incl. Hung Gar, Choy Lee Fut and the Ark Wong 5-Family system before moving to Austin, TX around '69 or '70 (???).

My Japanese Karate instructor learned the EP/Tracy's standard forms and such KF forms as 5 Wheel Stance, 5 Wheel Fist, Tiger Crane (incl. 2 man form), 10 Road Tan Tui, Crane, Tiger and Snake forms- as well as several Chinese weapon forms. My instructor even adapted the 5 Wheel Stance form for use by his "Traditional" Japanese sport Karate students.

All of the above said when I played my "Chinese Kenpo" KF forms for my Hung Gar and CLF friends they fell on the floor laughing their asses off As they kindly showed me Kenpo seems to have over-looked and left out many IMPORTANT nuances out of their KF forms...