The Key

[anerlich]

Do you think we should also respect and defer to snake-oil salesman too?.

Snake-oil salesman [sic] I can live with. I just don't buy their stuff.

A-hole loudmouth lawyers whose bravery and bragadoccio only extends as far as posting on internet forums? That's a class of subhuman I can really abhor.

Yes, I expect many of the faithful, like you, don't like me or my views or my attitudes. That's the nature of faith.

The disdain of you and your attitudes is not faith-based, but evidence-based. On your observed behaviour. I don't think you're a d!ck because a God or any Sifu told me you were a d!ck, I think you're a d!ck because I've seen ample empirical evidence of you acting like a d!ck, said evidence being available in copious amounts on many threads on this forum for any other unfortunate evidence-gatherer to come to their own evidence based conclusions on whether or not you are a d!ck. I think there was even a poll once on the forum on a similar subject involving yourself.

Your views are pretty derivative and conventional in the current zeitgeist. It is not their content, but the style, oversupply and sheer repetitiveness of their delivery which so disappoint.

Painting me and the growing number of others that dislike you as "faithful", to pretend some sort of contrast against your own irrational obsessions, is a clumsy ad hominem attack, unworthy of someone who pretends to function as a professional advocate.

Look at what he did to your own sifu.

You don't know sh1t about that subject, and you've trashed Rick on several occasions, so you are in no position to judge anybody else. It's pretty hypocritical you now trying to take the intellectual high ground after recently implying Rick and I are in a gay relationship. Common sense, rationalism, logic and demonstrable fighting skill are something you seem to demand of others but feel no obligation to demonstrate or demand of yourself. Can you spell "Hypocrite?"

[Wayfaring]

Thanks Andrew, but I meant Master Cheung's defense against the single leg takedown, and groundfighting defense against the mount...

I believe I already have you covered on that one.

[Wayfaring]

If they sit back in a defensive posture, they are giving you something. What ever they do gives you something. The question is do you know how to take advantage of it or not.

Good point. Although some by nature or training are more of the 'counterpuncher' variety, if you are well rounded you can capitalize.

BTW, did you notice that when I said "what do all you monkeys think?" that you were the only one that responded? And that you and I now are the only 2 monkeys in this aspect of the conversation? And that no organ grinders responded either?

What up with that?

[Ultimatewingchun]

"Wing Chun works in the areas it is designed for. But those areas do not include shoot counters or groundfighting." (Anerlich)
........................

***And as for "breaking the opponent's structure".....yes, it's good, but not necessary to win the fight. So looking to "attach" for more than a few seconds in order to start breaking his structure
is not only unnecessary, but can easily take you right out of your game. First and foremost, as a primarily wing chun-based fighter - you should be looking to knock your man out or down with strikes, ie.- punches, elbows, palms, knees, kicks, etc.

***End of thread.

[canglong]

originally posted by anerlich
...being the subject of ridicule and criticism obviously isn't something you enjoy or regard as fair, and there is a lesson in that which will probably be lost on T.

I'm slowly working through Alan Orr's NHB set, and there is obvious depth and understanding there. Alan seems like an intelligent and gracious student and instructor. He even tips his hat to Matt Furey and Tony Cecchine in the credits! He is a credit to you, unlike some.

Sure Robert may not consider the criticism fair but it certainly isn't misplaced or unwarranted. That same lesson is lost on Robert he proves it with his contradictory statements and actions things he doesn't deny by the way he just likes to dismiss them as past transgressions. Still they persist just check his most recent post of criticism and compare them to his own actions. The list is long and varied so lets not go into that but your own words sum it up if Robert is willing to accept credit for someone he should be willing to accept the blame for Terence something you and I both know he is unwilling to do because as usual he loves the praise but rejects the truth.

[chusauli]

Tony,

Often, what we find irksome in another is a reflection of what lies within ourselves. Your actions and words here show you have fear and a desire to control. Even if you were providing wise counsel, your method of going about things is in poor taste.

Ignorance leads to ego, ego leads to selfishness, selfishness to resentment, resentment to anger, anger to hatred...but hatred never ceases through hatred, but through compassion. When others are hurt, they usually act in anger and resentment and a wish to retaliate and hurt back. But these actions only prolong your pain, and holding in resentment makes you feel worse. I deal with people sick and dying daily, and I see you are in pain, fear and resentment.

You judge too much and too quickly - I am afflicted with only a short time here on Earth, as are you.

Is there someway we can at least agree to be cordial? Is there a way we can speak of these things directly between us man to man? I am open to communication.

And if all else fails, I know I extended my hand in good faith.

And I wish you to know that I try and follow the 6th Patriarch's example of developing a mind neither moved by praise or blame.

I wish you all the best.

[martyg]

Personally, I'm a little sickened at all the name calling and disrespect I'm seeing going on. Rick is a stand up guy, and someone I have a lot of respect for having spent time with him and Alf when they stayed at my house back in '98.

With William, no matter what disagreements and falling out we had, I don't think I'd ever refer to him as "judo chop Bill" or the like.

And to stoop to that level by calling Robert crap like that to teach a lesson in return is no excuse to me. It reflects just as poorly on the person doing it. Lead by example, not by counterpoint. That has the same logic as slapping around a wife beater's parents to show the wife beater how his wife feels. Slap the wife beater around instead, because that's the only thing they'll care about.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Sometimes karma just has to run its course - and there's no way to speed it up.

[Phil Redmond]

The move doesn't work well victor, that's the whole point. If it's actually a kick, its a different story, but the technique you're talking about leaves you so vulnerable that I am at a loss as to why anyone would promote it as the best choice of entry technique. You can't see why it a terrible choice of entry, and that's pretty much what this jumping nonsense is. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTXA5snEYa8[/url . . . . . . ....... .

Just got back from Detroit so I may be late in responding. No one in TWC says any technique is the best. We advocate to use what works and to not live in a box. I do have to say that the technique you're disparaging obviously has more to it than you know. We are in the process of doing full contact events in NYC. There are many variations of that entry technique that work in these events. Our next fights are August 28. I may be able to video a successful entry variation. If one happens I will post a clip. Remember though that it's a technique of opportunity that might never happen. Btw, other WC schools are welcome to compete regardless of school or lineage.

[Phil Redmond]

Only one problem. The only record of the Extreme Kickboxing event is only Mazza's website. I live about 5 miles from Camden and the school I train at competes in just about any event and.....oh.....sorry dude, I must be kind of slow tonight.

In that case you could come by and visit Sifu Mazza's school and check out what's going on for yourself. You might be surprised.

[Phil Redmond]

bULLSHI/T

Entry is exactly what he was doing. The arlovski point is exactly relevant here because the shorter man was trying to close the gap between them, and chose to jump towards fedor. His advantage in that fight was mobility, and giving it up by jumping at him was what resulted in the defeat.

The difference with the gracie version is that that was an intentional feint followed by a tackle. A very different scenario to the use of the technique by billy cheung who advocates its use to get into striking range.

Flying knees are a mugs game. Sure they've worked, but they're hardly an optimal technique. Similarly, jumping kicks are a mugs game , as are jumping/flying submission because they're such a low percentage option.

Of course what if scenarios are a pointless endeavour, but the rave style entry of cheung is farcical at best. NO matter the circumstance, there is a better option which leaves you less vulnerable.

Here is the King of flying knees from Holland and he uses them consistently from mid ring:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWtRNdsJe7c
I checked your profile and there is no info on your location or your credentials.
Can you enlighten us? If you're in the East coast maybe we could meet.

[t_niehoff]

Snake-oil salesman [sic] I can live with. I just don't buy their stuff.

You don't buy their stuff, eh? Hmmm. TWC entry technique. Finger strikes to pressure points. Secret footwork. Watching the elbows and knees. Central line.l Best fighter in wing chun. Etc.

A-hole loudmouth lawyers whose bravery and bragadoccio only extends as far as posting on internet forums? That's a class of subhuman I can really abhor.

Interesting.

The disdain of you and your attitudes is not faith-based, but evidence-based. On your observed behaviour. I don't think you're a d!ck because a God or any Sifu told me you were a d!ck, I think you're a d!ck because I've seen ample empirical evidence of you acting like a d!ck, said evidence being available in copious amounts on many threads on this forum for any other unfortunate evidence-gatherer to come to their own evidence based conclusions on whether or not you are a d!ck. I think there was even a poll once on the forum on a similar subject involving yourself.

Who cares if you don't like me or my attitude? I don't expect you to.

Your views are pretty derivative and conventional in the current zeitgeist. It is not their content, but the style, oversupply and sheer repetitiveness of their delivery which so disappoint.

That's funny considering that it only a few here seem to have similar views.

Painting me and the growing number of others that dislike you as "faithful", to pretend some sort of contrast against your own irrational obsessions, is a clumsy ad hominem attack, unworthy of someone who pretends to function as a professional advocate.

You should really look up terms like ad hominen before you use them.

You don't know sh1t about that subject, and you've trashed Rick on several occasions, so you are in no position to judge anybody else. It's pretty hypocritical you now trying to take the intellectual high ground after recently implying Rick and I are in a gay relationship. Common sense, rationalism, logic and demonstrable fighting skill are something you seem to demand of others but feel no obligation to demonstrate or demand of yourself. Can you spell "Hypocrite?"

I know lots more about that and other Cheung-related subjects than you think.

I've never "trashed" Spain. I've said he is a very good kickboxer (isn't he?), obviously an awesome grappler (as he is a brown belt), and congratulated him on getting his BB in kyokushinkai (a very difficult achievement). So what have I said that "trashed" him? I haven't seen his WCK (other than him performing forms and drills).

I was not implying you and Spain were in some gay relationship -- not that there is anything wrong with that if you did -- (by "you'll never have his baby no matter how hard you try"), I was just pointing out that your level of admiration for the guy is unhealthy. Which is, btw, standard in TMAs. This is demonstrated by your view that I "trashed" Rick when I've not.

And, even if I had, so what? Why would that bother you? Some people try and "trash" Robert all the time and it doesn't bother me.

[canglong]

originally posted by Robert Chu
Your actions and words show you have fear and a desire to control.

More Arrogance and ego from you supporting you. Moy Yat and everyone else were and are aware of your actions but because you were not physically confronted you like to write on boards that people are afraid of you. Moy Yat said not to waste time with a character like you and no one was afraid of you not William Moy and certainly not my sifu RL and he proved that.

Robert your M.O. is obvious more obvious than your agenda to some. You like to talk to hear yourself talk. You use rumor innuendo and gossip all in an effort to advance yourself and your points of view any place anywhere it's all about Robert all the time for you. You having the audacity to try and discuss other lineages with the slightest hint of authority is a joke. You have the gall to suggest that TWC and HFY were made up further you spout off publicly criticizing Chi Sim as looking a lot like Hung Ga. You love to judge others without the prerequisite experience or knowledge or do you possess some training or background you have not shared publicly.

By the way I am not judging you. I am just comparing the words of others with your actions.

It was Moy Yat whom suggested that you were not qualified to learn starting at the weapons and that you need to start at the siu nim tao level. So what did you do to prove him correct. You challenged William Cheung saying he could not use one hand to trap 2 a concept all good wing chun people know how to execute yet you had no grasp of the concept or clue how to execute until he shut you down and shut you up. That was also the time William Cheung told some of his students to keep an eye on this trouble maker Robert. As for critisizing Chi Sim you liked it so much you stole the hip action Chi Sim employs in their flower fist form to repackage it and insert it into your Chusaulei just like you copied the lesson plans off the school whiteboard for your articles, books and DVDs.

Copying things to throw into your mixed bag of Chusaulei is a habit you often repeat. But oh you don't call your smorgasbord chusaulei do you. You charged Benny Meng $1000 to read him "some notes" as he put it. You are just a say something do another kind of guy always feeding that ego. As others have pointed out you want the upper hand but are unwilling to work for it so you just take and take and take never giving credit or respect to those you take from and at no point have you ever demonstrated the acquired knowledge to talk on the subject of wing chun with any authority. No experience no skill and improper training you have my permission to copy that to your resume.

originally posted by Robert Chu
And if all else fails, I know I extended my hand in good faith.

Moy Yat didn't trust that hand William Cheung didn't trust that hand Randy Williams nor Kenneth Chung trusted that hand so why should I.

Don't get all mad because some of us see you as the megalomaniac you really are someone far from comparison to Hui Neng. Just accept it and be glad for people like Terence. Although to his credit it can be said that at least Terence believes the nonsense he advocates. Much to your chagrin many people here do see you as an unholy hypocrite that believes very little of what you say and none of what you do. Your sole purpose is to belittle others and lift up and anoint yourself. Money power and greed things you constantly suggest are the motivating factors driving others is exactly what you seek and your actions to that end cannot be denied.

[t_niehoff]

In that case you could come by and visit Sifu Mazza's school and check out what's going on for yourself. You might be surprised.

Why don't you just post details about the alleged competition?

[m1k3]

In that case you could come by and visit Sifu Mazza's school and check out what's going on for yourself. You might be surprised.

Phil, no disrespect. Sifu Mazza may be doing great things at his school. I am curious about the pro-MMA competition he claimed to have won in April. The questions about the event were originally raised at bullshido and I posted here to see if anyone knew anything about it. So far no one has posted anything about the event and I have not been able to find anything about it on the internet.

If you have any information would you be willing to share it with us?