Ng chan wing chun

[CFT]

The next 3 posts concludes the Chum Kiu article. I've split it so you don't OD all at once!
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第二節，綁手上馬45度打連環腳。坐馬上馬護手綁手，手要用上對號的力，肩不能動，上馬起腳身不能動，這些 動作做不上三幾千次，休想有效。這一節，同時訓練這邊跟人手來手往，那邊又有人來攻，怎樣同時 應付。

The 2nd section. Bong sau advancing horse 45-degree continuous kicks. Sitting horse advancing horse wu sau bong sau, the hands need to use the appropriate strength, the shoulder must not move, when raising the leg for advancing the horse the body must not move. These actions must be performed at least 3,000 times before they will be effective. This section also trains on one side how to follow someone when exchanging hands, on the other side when someone attacks, how to respond.

第三節，低綁手，坐馬，上身90度打正腳上馬。詠春拳一個尋橋馬，上半身分45度90度，這有 利於追貼對手 ，迫馬，插腳入對方馬，拌對方馬，[我們同時練到小腿前節堅硬，上馬順便撞打對方小腿，所以，我說什麼泰拳踢蔗樹小菜一碟，詠春就練踢鬆樹，小 腿上下五寸踢]這裡有動作上馬，圈，侄手，齊打雙正掌，后轉腳轉馬，怎樣用途，就留給大家想想，這裡賣個關子 。

The 3rd section. Low bong sau, sitting horse, upper body 90-degree front kick advancing horse. Wing Chun Kuen has a Chum Kiu ma, the upper body divided by 45-degrees 90-degrees. This is beneficial for chasing and sticking to the opponent. Pressing horse (bik ma) plants the leg directly into the opponent's horse, agitating their horse. [At the same time we are also conditions the shins, when advancing horse hitting the opponent's lower leg. Therefore, I say what Muay Thai kicks banana tree – just a small dish. Wing Chun trains kicking the pine tree, lower leg upper and lower 5 inches]. Here there are actions of advancing horse, huen, jut sau, double front palms, turn leg behind turning horse. What use is this, I'll leave that for you to think about, keep guessing.

[CFT]

詠春拳不是軟手軟腳，而是手腳有力。無錯，有所謂借力打力，但，力那麼容易借？不要當對手是笨 蛋，他也時刻 想打倒你。

Wing Chun Kuen is not floppy arm floppy legged, but has power in the arms and legs. Correct, there is the so-called borrow strength to hit with strength. But how easy is it to borrow? Don't think the opponent is stupid, he wants to hit you at every moment.

在與對手搏擊，坐不好馬，身體就容易失平衡，起腳就用不出連環腳。我講過要練用一隻腳站，打小諗頭，尋橋就 知好處，等於坐馬，一腳馬坐好，另一隻腳就可自由打對方。何況，詠春拳有一腳而出打對方八處不 同位置的連環 八腳。

When fighting with the opponent, if you do not sit well in your horse then it is easy to lose balance, when raising the legs it will not be possibly to use continuous kicks. I have spoken about training on one leg, doing Siu Nim Tau. The benefits are seen in Chum Kiu. Same as sitting horse (chor ma), if the one legged horse is good the other leg can freely kick the opponent. What's more, Wing Chun Kuen has one kick that can hit the opponent in 8 different places – 8 continuous kicks (lien wan baat gerk).

[CFT]

講到威力，一出手置人死地，人們多謂，每家拳術都有，但容易嗎？這裡講個詠春比如。大家整天沖 拳，威力大嗎 ？能一拳打死人？形意拳叫，一年形意打死人。我告訴學生，做給他們看，詠春一個正掌，打到人鼻 骨插入大腦而 死。想不到？象這樣的手法，詠春拳隨便都是。

Speaking of power, to kill someone with one blow, spoken about by many, each fist art has this, but is it easy? Here we talk about Wing Chun. Everyone is always thrusting punch, is there much power? Can it kill with one blow? XingYi has a saying: 'One year of XingYi can kill people'. I tell the students, demonstrate to them, Wing Chun has a front palm (jing jeung), hits the nasal bone so that it projects into the cerebrum causing death. Can't imagine it? This kind of method can be found anywhere in Wing Chun Kuen.

馬，前腳要鬆。簡單如螳螂崩步，刁手順刁反刁，人家如何崩？就是上馬崩打你的腳，順刁手就是扣打你手反刁就 順勢插你眼。你功夫不過硬，就腳亂手忙。認真練的人，人家的腳不會亂崩。

The horse, front leg must be relaxed (sung). As simple as the Praying Mantis beng bo (crushing step), hooking hand following and reverse. How do they crush (beng)? That is when they advance the horse (seung ma) crushing your leg. Following/forward hooking hand (diu sau) detains your hand, reverse hooking hand follows the momentum to poke your eye. If your kung fu is only hard, then your hands and legs are muddled. Serious trainers, their legs will not randomly crush.

這裡有張相，我十五六歲拍，那時，我打椿己打到手腕跟手臂一樣大。拳術每個動作要講力。

練拳基礎好，終身受益。

下次續-----標指。

Here is a photo of me when I was 15/16. Then, I had hit the dummy so much my wrists were as thick as my arms. In the fist arts, each movement must be done with power.

Train the fist with good foundations, you will benefit throughout your lifetime.

Next ----- Biu Jee

[k gledhill]

No, just sticking to the principles. You can have your own flavor but you can't violate the principles and then go and talk down to others.....

maybe one day we can meet and exchange ideas, its easier than clips or talk.

[Vajramusti]

maybe one day we can meet and exchange ideas, its easier than clips or talk.

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The thread is about Ng Chan's version of wing chun- not yours.

joy chaudhuri

[Vajramusti]

The next 3 posts concludes the Chum Kiu article. I've split it so you don't OD all at once!
============================
. Pressing horse (bik ma) plants the leg directly into the opponent's horse, agitating their horse. [At the same time we are also conditions the shins, when advancing horse hitting the opponent's lower leg. Therefore, I say what Muay Thai kicks banana tree – just a small dish. Wing Chun trains kicking the pine tree, lower leg upper and lower 5 inches]. Here there are actions of advancing horse, huen, jut sau, double front palms, turn leg behind turning horse. What use is this, I'll leave that for you to think about, keep guessing.

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In the NG Chan POV apparently the kicking comes from the Leung Shun type of weighted back leg kind of stance...apparently.

joy chaudhuri

[k gledhill]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The thread is about Ng Chan's version of wing chun- not yours.

joy chaudhuri

Stop mentioning me then. ; )

[Vajramusti]

Re; Ng Chan planting the front leg into the opponents horse. Given the Ng Chan and Leung Shun back leg weighting- there is the danger of the front leg being swept with the help of the hands
and ergo the balance on one leg being endangered.--if I understood the text correctly.

Understood about 8 directional kicking practice. Good details on Ng Chan's approach.

The views of the first HK Ip man generation--WSL, Ho Kam Ming, TST and others gives good history
about IM's teachings and good insight on practicing wing chun and experimenting for one self.

I don't think that Ip Bo Ching left any writings. With Leung Shun we have what Jack Ling and
Kenneth Chun learned from him.

joy chaudhuri

[kung fu fighter]

I don't think that Ip Bo Ching left any writings. joy chaudhuri

Hi Joy, from what I understand Yip man kept a wing chun journal in which he wrote volumes, these were given to Yip Bo Ching. In addition to this I heard yip bo ching also made detailed notes of everything he learnt from yip. I also understand that yip bo Ching was the only person that recieved all of Yip Man's wing chun knoledge, the rest were given fragments of the whole depending on which period they studied. It would be cool to hear about his perspective from his students or grand students.

[Vajramusti]

Navin- could be- but I don't think so...atleast in part.

It would be nice to have Ip Bo Chings notes ..but I don't think that he got it all.

Ip Ching is the more attentive brother-- but he did not join his dad till 62- when IM was already semi-retired.He does have 3 small books of Ip man.

Ho Kam Ming was also given a book but it got stolen or lost in the upheaval if Ip man's death..
but his memory is crystal clear about the details of Ip Man's instruction and POV-though he does not write for publication. He visited IM regularly even after finishing receiving regular instruction.
Was with him even the morning he died. When HKM returned to Macao Ip Ching called him to inform him of IM's passing.BUT HKM is not the chit chatting kind.

Thanks for the suggestions.

joy

[MOSHE]

Hello

Ki ping pun spoke about him because him and ng chan knew him very well
Each day they were eating in the same restaurant but about the technic itself he could have choiced anyone else
The older student of ng chan ( I don't remember the name) before to join ng chan was a sifu of tang Lang , and this since several generations in his family
But one day he met ng chan and stRted a kind of fight and so right away that he had no chance
He stopped tl and started Wi g Chun
Neverless he was very experimented in fighting and very close too to wsl
And every weeks these two guys were involved in street fighting
Wsl who practised other style before wc prefered really to fight than being very deep in the technics
One day ng chan and the elder student proposed him a friendly advise which consistef to correct the way he was doing Bon and tan during walking in Cham ku ( first walking)

Ki ping pun wanted to point out that his flow was not keeping forward but instead his arm was moving back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ckHE...e_gdata_player

This movement is very special and just few know how to use it
Without disclosing the function , pun tried at least to propose a correction like ng chan proposed to wsl in the past


Concerning other comments on the differents reactions about the last posts( thank to the translator) I will wait him to finish

Anyway this seems to me like the advertising : some are thinking they hold the glass of whisky but it's just canada dry
This without disrespect , I just want to illustrate how almost imperceptible can be the limit between the original and the modified versions that is driving people to think that what we are writing is finally the same as them

Regards

[kung fu fighter]

Navin- could be- but I don't think so...atleast in part.

It would be nice to have Ip Bo Chings notes ..but I don't think that he got it all.

Ip Ching is the more attentive brother-- but he did not join his dad till 62- when IM was already semi-retired.He does have 3 small books of Ip man.

Ho Kam Ming was also given a book but it got stolen or lost in the upheaval if Ip man's death..
but his memory is crystal clear about the details of Ip Man's instruction and POV-though he does not write for publication. He visited IM regularly even after finishing receiving regular instruction.
Was with him even the morning he died. When HKM returned to Macao Ip Ching called him to inform him of IM's passing.BUT HKM is not the chit chatting kind.

Thanks for the suggestions.

joy

Hi Joy, yip bo ching and yip ching are not the same person

[Vajramusti]

Hi Joy, yip bo ching and yip ching are not the same person

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Navin - I know that. Yip Bo Ching was an early student..but he had health problems and died
before Ip man finished his teaching career. Yip Bo Ching had some notes they were not organized after his death.There is no way that Ip man would have transmitted everything to Ip Bo Ching before the latter's death. he was also ill before he died. he was fairly wealthy and did take private lessons however.

BTW- one person on this list once mentioned that someone broke into Ip Man's room and grabbed some of IM's papers.Human failures.

I added Ip Ching because he lived with Ip man and has some of his dad's materials.. Different people lived with Ip man at different times
before Ip Ching. Ng Chan...TSUI Tsong Tin earlier- Cheung briefly. No point in going over the stories.

Traditionally good students do not chit chat about the teachers in a gossipy way.

joy

[Vajramusti]

Just curious why translations stopped...

Jox

_____________________________________It's a lot of work and people including Chee have lives outside of this forum.

I am thankful for what we have got so far.

joy chaudhuri

[lance]

hello,

i trained myself few times with ng chan in hong kong and in france (from where im native) when he came to visit us
i can confirm to you and to people interesting in wing chun that he was the more accomplished student of yip man ,to who he gave most of his knowledge and know how in wing chun,like the kicks.
authentic wing chun is not really what you see ,in the movements ,it is more what you dont see in the way to become free of the movements and to organise your strength regards your will
and thats the problem of wing chun today,because what people think of wing chun to be very efficient and impressive,they cannot achieve it against other syle more basic .
the reason is that they perfomed only movements ,and they teach only movements because nobody teached them the know how of wing chun
so ,in a way ,what people are practising today is not the authentic wing chun of leung chan or yip man
this wasnt the case of ng chan ,and of his closest student ki ping pun which one was living with him
Im open to any question or discussion
regards

Moshe , Yes , you ' re entitiled to your own opinion concerning Wing Chun . To me because the late GM Ip Man himself had alot of students learning under him . And as his students progressed in their training under him , some of his students became assistant instructors under him and began to teach other students as well . Until the time came where these assistant teachers under him eventually went out on their own to open their own schools or clubs .

I know sifu Cheung learned 2 - different versions of WC from Ip Man ' s nephews or his disciples , because GM Cheung ' s chum kiu is different from other WC practitioners . But other than that the 3 - sets for other WC practitioners are all the same .

Moshe , if your sifu Ng Chan was the more accomplished sifu under Ip Man himself , then why have ' nt I heard of him ? I only have heard of GM William Cheung , Wong Shun Leung and other people . But now that you ' ve brought up Sifu Ng Chan , but you know what , I think other people besides Sifu Ng Chan is also accomplished WC practitioners too . And to me as long as every body learned under GM Ip Man himself it is authentic WC , but most of all besides learning the
3 - sets of WC and the entire system you also have train and practice the techniques which are involved in the system . And make sure the techniques work for you as you are learning the system . Other wise you ' re just wasting your time . But using WC techniques to survive a confrontation of any kind is the most important thing . Also like any other Martial Arts learning when to use and not to use martial art is also important too .

And moshe , to me WC is the most efficient and agressive system to learn . You know what the funny thing is moshe although you learned under Sifu Ng Chan yourself and you speak so highly of him , but yet you criticize WC . What ' s the deal it ' s either you like WC or not . And GM chueng did defeat a choy li fut practitioner in HK before . And I do think that WC can also beat other styles of martial arts too . The WC people had exponents like the late Bruce Lee , GM Chueng and Sifu Wong Shun Leung .

And WC don ' t have a problem it 's the people who critiscize WC has a problem , may be you may not know what WC is all about . I know what WC is because , I ' ve studied the system myself . Sure you ' ve studied under Sifu Ng Chan , but maybe the techniques were to hard for you too learn maybe .