Ng chan wing chun

[LoneTiger108]

That's some good translations Chee, so thanks again!

The boon gwan (lau) is very different in our family, mainly because we have a whole set that looks at the 'quarter staff' movements. Albeit, the half pole is used in very close and 'leaks' over/under and through attacks so I think it must be similar to what the artice describes.

[Tom Kagan]

On throwing with a biu jee move. Moshe's English may not have captured his intent.
While striking is primary in wing chun- throwing is possible with proper biu jee practice. In a challenge match on a stage with an audience present Ip Man sent a Northern stylist flying into the audience.
The description is in Ip Ching's book on his father.

Throwing "over the body", as suggested by Moshe and disputed by Graham, is not in the Ving Tsun forms.

In order to properly perform a throw, three factors need to be present, not necessarily in order: 1) unbalancing, 2) positioning, and 3) mechanics. If any one of these factors are missing and you attempt a follow through, at best a throw will be muscled through, at worst you will be injured. Somewhere between those two extremes is failing to throw or getting countered.

Without being under the influence of hallucinogenic drugs and/or delusions of grandeur, absolutely no solitary form in the entire history of martial arts contains anything remotely related to numbers one and two above; Only partner practice can bring out these qualities in a practitioner. However, solitary forms can have and many do have number three. Specifically, Ving Tsun solitary forms do have the correct mechanics for sweeps and trips, but not high amplitude "over the body" throws.

The "three bows to buddha" at the end of BiuGee are incorrect mechanics for throwing. Either its nature is not a throw, or the ancestors were idiots who didn't know what they were doing. Pick your choice.

I know the story in the book. While taking a bow is common on stage, "three bows to buddha" isn't an ancient Chinese way of tossing someone into the orchestra pit.

Moshe's intent was correct. Use of momentum, balance and timing- not muscled.

The road to h3ll is paved with good intentions.

[k gledhill]

1 'fong lung cheung' -"releasing the dragon spearing-action" -this refers to the thrusting/striking action in the form.
2. 'ping cheung' -"level spearing-action" -this refers to the pushing action of the form, similar to the 'Lan Sau' in the empty-hand forms.
3. 'leung yi' -"two moves" -this is the action that resembles the 'Jaat Sau' technique in the empty-hand forms. It is referred to as 'Leung Yi' because it enables us to defend and be placed in a position of attack within one action.
4. 'lau soi' -"moving/stirring the water" -the action that is the pole form's equivalent of the 'Bong Sau' action.
5. 'kam gwan' -"covering pole" -the action that follows 'Lau Soi'here the pole covers the opponent's weapon, knocking it downwards.
6. 'dang gwan' -"ascending pole" -this is the arcing/lifting action done at the start of the pole form, and again towards the end, a 'Laan Sau'-type motion that can be applied offensively or defensively.
0.5 'che cheung' -"descending spearing-action" -the backward/ downward action at the very end of the pole form, used to intercept the opponent's weapon (or the opponent's legs) when the attack comes in on a low line from the rear of the stance.

[Vajramusti]

Except for the apparent claim that only Ng Chan has the original Ip Man wing chun, I continue to find Moshe's sifus's writing very informative about Ip man's wing chun.

joy

[CFT]

7半點漏棍

漏棍為每家長短棍法必有的技術，也是中國武術特式。持棍面對敵人，這時有人從身后殺到，如何？ 最快當然是棍 尾漏打。

六點半棍之漏，包括反奪棍，對手迫近，漏棍轉手，手腳並用，寸棍必爭。棍頭當作棍尾用。

7. Half point lau (leaking) gwan.

Lau gwan is an ever present skill in each family of long and short pole methods, and is a unique feature of Chinese martial arts. Holding the pole facing the enemy, at that point someone attacks from behind, what then? The quickest is obviously to use the pole end to leak hit.

The 'leak' in the 6.5 point pole includes reverse pole capture, when the opponent presses close, leaking pole exchanged, hands and feet used together, each inch of the pole fought over. Pole tip used like the pole end.

[CFT]

Spencer, the last paragraph shows why Moshe's sifu is dissatisfied with his huen gwan even after 42 years of practice. The man has high standards. Would be interested to hear if anyone else uses this training method.
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整套棍法嚴密全面[其他門派易然]分別在於力量技巧運用。中國拳術，冷兵器，最高追求。是力的最完美最高威力的結合，是我們先人的最具知慧的 表現，世界獨一無二。單頭棍和長劍，一靜一動，最具代表。

The complete set of pole methods are comprehensively tight (defence), the differences are in the skillful use of power. Chinese fist arts, cold weaponry, the highest pursuit. This is strength at its most complete and most powerful union, this is our ancestors' wisdom displayed, unique in this world. Single headed pole and long sword, one still one in motion, are the most representative.

詠春拳選擇一棍一刀為兵器，是深經熟濾。刀可快速殺人。棍可全面應對，拳腳上梅花樁。

Wing Chun Kuen's choice of one pole one knife as weapons, come from deep consideration. The knives can quickly kill people. The pole can comprehensively meet the attack, fist and feet go on the plum flower stakes.

練習單頭棍，圈。棍尖須挂物，以前鄉下，圈桶。桶不用繩，用竹勾，挑著竹勾圈到桶轉[我還做不到，所以不滿意自己]。

Training the single headed pole, huen (circle). The pole tip must be hung with an object, in the past in the village, huen (circle) the bucket. The bucket did not use string, use a bamboo hook. Hanging the hook on the pole tip, huen until the bucket spins [I still can't do this so am dissatisfied with myself].

[lance]

----------------

Correct.
Joy Chaudhuri

Joy , does Sifu Fong or Sigung Ho Kam Ming now about this Ng Chan Sifu ?
I asked this question to my 2 - WC friends they both learned from Sifu Stanley
Au ( Au Keoung ) . They said they heard about Ng Chan but he ' s the type of person who like to keep a low profile on himself . I was thinking that if Ng Chan sifu would like to keep a low profile , I can understand that , but why is this moshe person posting about him . I heard about your Sifu Fong and Sigung Ho Kam Ming was a private student of the late GM Ip Man . Sifu fong is pretty fast too , that caucasian girl that demos with Sifu fong sometimes is that Sifu Fong ' s
wife ? Take Care

Lance

[lance]

hello,

i trained myself few times with ng chan in hong kong and in france (from where im native) when he came to visit us
i can confirm to you and to people interesting in wing chun that he was the more accomplished student of yip man ,to who he gave most of his knowledge and know how in wing chun,like the kicks.
authentic wing chun is not really what you see ,in the movements ,it is more what you dont see in the way to become free of the movements and to organise your strength regards your will
and thats the problem of wing chun today,because what people think of wing chun to be very efficient and impressive,they cannot achieve it against other syle more basic .
the reason is that they perfomed only movements ,and they teach only movements because nobody teached them the know how of wing chun
so ,in a way ,what people are practising today is not the authentic wing chun of leung chan or yip man
this wasnt the case of ng chan ,and of his closest student ki ping pun which one was living with him
Im open to any question or discussion
regards

Moshe , since you ' ve been training with Sifu Ng Chan whenever possible , are you certified to teach under Sifu Ng Chan ? I can understand if Sifu Ng Chan is a low profile person type of person , but what about you ? Are you willing to share your knowledge of the authentic Ip Man WC . to the people who really want to learn it You should organize a seminar on Ng Chan WC . Otherwise your
knowledge of Sifu Ng Chan is going to waste if something happens to you . Most of the people on this thread agrees with you , so are you willing to share your knowledge with people ?

Or are your really trying to tell us that we have to invest our money for plane fare
and to live in HK just to learn Authentic WC Ip Man WC from Sifu Ng Chan . Why not just Produce a instructional DVD with you representing Sifu Ng Chan . Because
not everybody can travel to HK or in live in HK to learn from Sifu Ng Chan . But if you produce the DVD , then you can generate income and everybody can learn the authentic WC Ng Chan lineage . Well , moshe it ' s up to you .

Because if you can ' t teach a seminar or teach a class or produce an instructional DVD then , why even post anything about Ng Chan WC on this thread ? It may help you because you ' ve already learn from the Sfiu himself . But what about people from all over the world ? Because if you say that Wong Shun Leung and other popular sifus don ' t have the authentic WC , then why not share it then ?
Just a suggestion .

[CFT]

Ng Chan sifu died in 2008. One of his students Ki Ping Pun lives in Paris, France I believe. Moshe is Ki Ping Pun's student.

[Sean66]

So, Moshe, does Ki Ping Pun still live and teach in Paris?
If so, I could go check him out first-hand.

[MOSHE]

moshe , since you ' ve been training with sifu ng chan whenever possible , are you certified to teach under sifu ng chan ? I can understand if sifu ng chan is a low profile person type of person , but what about you ? Are you willing to share your knowledge of the authentic ip man wc . To the people who really want to learn it you should organize a seminar on ng chan wc . Otherwise your
knowledge of sifu ng chan is going to waste if something happens to you . Most of the people on this thread agrees with you , so are you willing to share your knowledge with people ?

Or are your really trying to tell us that we have to invest our money for plane fare
and to live in hk just to learn authentic wc ip man wc from sifu ng chan . Why not just produce a instructional dvd with you representing sifu ng chan . Because
not everybody can travel to hk or in live in hk to learn from sifu ng chan . But if you produce the dvd , then you can generate income and everybody can learn the authentic wc ng chan lineage . Well , moshe it ' s up to you .

Because if you can ' t teach a seminar or teach a class or produce an instructional dvd then , why even post anything about ng chan wc on this thread ? It may help you because you ' ve already learn from the sfiu himself . But what about people from all over the world ? Because if you say that wong shun leung and other popular sifus don ' t have the authentic wc , then why not share it then ?
Just a suggestion .

ng chan sifu died in 2008. One of his students ki ping pun lives in paris, france i believe. Moshe is ki ping pun's student.

first, try, regarding what we posted ,why we are doing that;

principally to inform people about wing chun from leung bik and

secondly if you read carefully this thread, it will help people to evaluate their wing chun

both ki ping pun and me were living in france,and i was his lone student the last years

a long time ago ,when i started ,there was others students but they stopped after they learned some very basic wing chun,and nothing advanced

the last two years ,ki ping pun was teaching in budapest .
Now he left there and he is living near canton ,china

myself ,im leaving now in israel ,and im teaching to few people there

never you can learn from a dvd

people are thinking that everything is a question of movements, thats not the case ,even if its important.

To develop the feminine strength is the more important and to catch the know its only when you are practising with you sifu because he is giving back to your arms the feeling and experience that he received from his master ,which is the same thing that his master received from his own master ,like that up to wing chun

the students of ip man never heard about that and ip man never shown it to them it
he did to kwok fu and to ng chan

now the readers of the thread are informed about it

[CFT]

直棍，標。以龍形槍作為練習馬步，標棍。直棍難在不能擺動，力到棍尖。詠春棍握一臂之長，棍尾不外露，丈二 長，單是拿起己不容易。今時的二米六棍，原是雙夾單，並非單頭棍。丈二正好運用貢杆原理，發揮力到棍尖。三 種棍，各種用力方式完全不同，馬步走位不同，不可混為一談。

Jik gwan (straight pole), biu (dart). Use lung ying cheung (dragon shape spear) to train footwork, biu gwan (darting pole). The difficulty in straight pole is that it should not sway, power goes to the pole tip. Wing Chun pole utilizes the advantage of the upper arm, pole end not extended, length 10ft 2, not easy to just pick up. The present day 2meter 6 pole was originally the 'seung gap dan' (double and single), not the single headed pole. 10ft 2 is just right for applying the lever principle, sending power to the pole tip. The 3 pole types, each use different power methods, footwork and positioning is different, they cannot be jumbled together.

[k gledhill]

Thanks Chee, we treat the pole drills as essential development of a rounded VT fighter for the by-products and correlation to hand use. I have mentioned before that VT fist striking method is similar to 2 poles alternating to strike...using short ballistic parries of the lead as the pole while not deviating by 1cm for certain death ...
The rotation drill with the bucket is the covering dang gwan idea, to us, it is hard to get both rotation to cover and ballistic displacing force, just at the tip, and not make a ridiculous circle with thigh and hand....Then try to do on another pole sparring
All said and done, the accuracy with a pole I find to be remarkable, the accuracy and force generation on a solid surface leaves you in no doubt about its ability to stop someone with one hit.

[CFT]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/17731131@N00/6100023098

這個就是從雙頭棍改成的刺刀術，鏡頭正中的人就動作純正，槍身合一，其他就不成了。

This (picture) is from the double headed pole altered into bayonet art. The central figure is performing the correct action, spear and body in union, the others are inadequate.

六，七十年代的中國刺殺術，把伏槍，攔槍，漏槍，刺，挑運用得非常好。所以我總有一短棍放在車 上，以備所需 ，因我專門研究過刺殺。

The Chinese assassination art of the 60s/70s (translator note: must be 1860/70 !) used the fuk spear, lan spear, lau spear, chi (stab), tiu (rising stroke) very effectively. Therefore I always had a short pole in the car, just in case, because I especially researched assassination.

雙頭棍在嶺南拳術中除詠春外，幾呼都有，這裡不討論。

Double headed pole in Lingnam fist arts, other than Wing Chun, are practically everywhere, no need to discuss here.

雙夾單，以蔡李佛的最具代表。

'Seung gap dan' (double and single) most representative in Choy Lee Fut.

詠春六點半棍練習，有三點chi棍,割,攔,挑,打上,中,下.並且有刀對棍對練.

Wing Chun 6.5 point pole training has: 3-point sticking pole, got (cut), lan (bar), tiu (rising stroke), hit high, middle, low. There is also knife vs. pole training.

棍大至如此.有機會可以談淡拳,椿.

The pole is largely like this. If there is opportunity we'll talk about fist, jong.

[k gledhill]

picture link...? cant see.

replaced jpg with gif... !!! Hey I think those ferns just moved...ferns what ferns ? Oh those ferns !! hah



http://imgsrc.baidu.com/forum/pic/it...54369bf768.gif