Tai Zu Chang Quan - info?

[Cdr.Instigator]

Tagged for further reading from home.. not work!!

[Xian]

Thanks for posting that. Yes, we discussed that a few years back in a few other threads. There was a big long Hong Quan thread.

There have been many articles in Chinese martial art magazines and online about all the different Hong Quan and Taizuquan lineages and branches and styles.
People in the West are just starting to learn about all this, which is good.

Thanks again.

Ah so the Lao Jia Hong Quan for example wasnt mentioned by that ?


Kind regards,
Xian

[bawang]

ive been reading a lot of past military documents and they have changed my perception of chinese martial arts.

there is zero doubt that chinese military is the source of chinese martial arts.

what sal canzonieri posted on the internet has some merit but he is heavily biased towards himself. the only "evidence" he presents are forms.

[Royal Dragon]

I have been doing some thinking lately (Sal already knows this). Almost ALL Tai Tzu sets, no matter where they are from, if they refer to Zhao Kuang Yin look either like Shaolin Lao Hong and Da Hong Quan (the 6 road set) or they look like the Shadong forms that are most commonly seen, or they look like the sets put out on VCd by Li Cheng Xiang.

It is well known that before Zhao Kuang Yin joined the military, he traveled around learning various arts, and tried to make a living as a martial arts performer.

He was famous for doing Hong Quan (flooding fist), Monkey boxing (imitates a Gibbon), the Six Stance Fist, and something called the Glorious Fist. All of these are very similar arts from the area he grew up.

That stuff that looks like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXVwsJfi5gY

It is the stuff he taught to Shaolin before entering the military. He traded this set (or at least the loose techniques) to Shaolin for advanced training in thier softer arts. If you compare it to other arts from the area he grew up, it's all pretty similar.

He was also said to have spent time in GuanXi, and Guandong learning during his travels and there are sets by those names preserved in the Taoist lines. The closest I have been able to view is from the Moslem Six Harmonies style who claim Zhao is one of thier major ancestors.

The Guanxi sets generally look like Cha Fist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHcfG...eature=related

then you have another batch of sets that look like this, which is what I thing the Guan Dongquan is like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkoWAo3yWeo

These are all 3 different over all styles of Long Fist. My current theory is that Zhao learned what he could in the various areas he was in and created sets to remember the techniques of that particular geography.

Each style is represented by one set, each with it's own body of techniques and flavor. Some of it is external, some internal. That is why all Tai Tzu sets with a oral, or written history connected to Zhao Quang Yin look like one of the above forms.


The Shaolin 32 posture form is clearly different than those, because it was created by Shaolin from random input that came from Zhao's generals. It was never actually his personal style.

Well, that is my current theory anyway.

[Tainan Mantis]

- forms was looked down or bannd in most of the ming military, (Formation Treatise: "It is banned among the military, this useless gimmick.")

Hi,
Thanks for posting that. I would like to look it up. Could you tell me the name of Formation Treatise in Chinese. Any tips on where in this book I'll find this quote?

[bawang]

Hi,
Thanks for posting that. I would like to look it up. Could you tell me the name of Formation Treatise in Chinese. Any tips on where in this book I'll find this quote?

http://www.docin.com/p-108341955.html

the specific line is "是以为军中之切忌者，在套子武艺"

[Tainan Mantis]

Thanks for providing...

[GeneChing]

The Long Fist of the Emperor (by me)
May/June 2013

This was part of the prize for the Songshan Shaolin Champion. The next Songshan Shaolin Champion will be determined at the Tiger Claw Elite Championship on June 1, 2013 in San Jose, CA.