The heavybager vs. The formser

[TAO YIN]

Unsolved Mathematical Fighting Question....

James has a heavy bag that he beats every day, as hard as he can, over and over again. Jack has a practical form that he plays every day as hard as he can, over and over again. They both train equally time wise, agression wise, and all that other wise. With regards to what they are doing in their training, both have good structure, equally. Neither men have ever had a fight. Who wins and why?

[solo1]

Forms, He has trained to move, trained to elude, trained his muscles to move without thinking. Forms and technique will beat brute force.

[MasterKiller]

Forms, He has trained to move, trained to elude, trained his muscles to move without thinking. Forms and technique will beat brute force.

The guy hitting the bag has learned to move, to elude, and trained his muscles to move without thinking as well. He also gets the benefit of using the resistance of the bag to correct his alignment, posture, and root when throwing and landing strikes full power, not to mention his center of balance will be properly aligned when throwing full-power strikes. His sense of range will be better. And his fists/shins will be more properly conditioned to hit someone hard without hurting/breaking.

[Frost]

The guy hitting the bag has learned to move, to elude, and trained his muscles to move without thinking as well. He also gets the benefit of using the resistance of the bag to correct his alignment, posture, and root when throwing and landing strikes full power, not to mention his center of balance will be properly aligned when throwing full-power strikes. His sense of range will be better. And his fists/shins will be more properly conditioned to hit someone hard without hurting/breaking.

Umm what he said, its not rocket science

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Forms, He has trained to move, trained to elude, trained his muscles to move without thinking. Forms and technique will beat brute force.

Play fighting with your imaginary friend will not produce results. Also, since when is working the heavy bag brute force.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Even the ancient hit things, whether it was trees, posts, or sand bags.
You will never understand structure and alignment wtihout hitting, not to mention that the endurance needed for HB work is far more than for forms.
Also, WTF is a "practical form" anyways?

[Dragonzbane76]

Forms, He has trained to move, trained to elude, trained his muscles to move without thinking. Forms and technique will beat brute force.

And a person doing bag work does not???

You do not gain technique from doing bag work??

[David Jamieson]

Reading that makes me think that Tao Yin doesn't do his bag rounds regularly.

lol.

5 minutes of nothing but jabs

5 minutes of jab/cross combo

5 minutes of jab/cross/hook combo

5 minutes of hook/ uppercut (or canon fist)

try it and see what kind of understanding you get form it.

even just the once.

[Lucas]

i vote bag hitter.

i practice both personally. light on forms though

but i can tell you now that if those guys dont spar regularly, ill beat them both.

[TAO YIN]

Kung Lek,

Nah, I do both regularly, with all the other... Is everyday, give or take an injury here or there, enough?

You are right though. A person will wear themselves out on a bag long before they will a form. My meaning was, both are these guys are equal. One hits a bag. The other hits the air. Both have never fought. Same of everything else...

Sanjuro,

A practical form is a practical form. I'm thinking something simple like Jik bo from Bak Mei. Jab, Cross, Jab, Cross...That sort of thing. Something that has the basics of a fight in it.

Anyways, back to the answer?

[Lucas]

so, how about we change the scenario a bit.

apply that same situation to a western boxer.

one guy only shadow boxes, the other guy works the heavy bag. neither have fought, but both use mit drills as well.

who wins?

[bawang]

u guys sound like hitting bags is some sort of super duper modern elite western training

[Lucas]

u guys sound like hitting bags is some sort of super duper modern elite western training

nah. hitting a bag, or any training target, is world wide.

but hitting a bag, any bag, is better than just hitting air all the time. if someone ONLY hits air, they will never learn how to really hit.

i just hang the bodies of my fallen enemies and hit those....till it starts to stink.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Bag hitting is universal

[MasterKiller]

so, how about we change the scenario a bit.

apply that same situation to a western boxer.

one guy only shadow boxes, the other guy works the heavy bag. neither have fought, but both use mit drills as well.

who wins?

The guy who hits the bag, for all the reasons I mentioned above.