sounds like you might be talking about the luohan 13 exercise rouquan set. is it this one?:
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_ce00XMTg0OTA2NDQ=.html
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sounds like you might be talking about the luohan 13 exercise rouquan set. is it this one?:
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_ce00XMTg0OTA2NDQ=.html
羅王宗
Hey Guys
On the encyclopedia mizong quan thing...
When I learned this set it was referred to as 'xin yi mizong quan'.
The Xin yi yi lu set in the encyclopedia I can verify is about right, that is what shaolin xinyi quan looks like (very old set), this is from memory but i remember quite clearly.
You will notice in the old encyclopedia the er lo set (mizong er lo) is drawn in a different style to the rest of the encyclopedia. I think it was added as an afterthought when perhaps they couldn't find the real one.
I agree with sal on the mizong quan yanqing quan stuff, however there is something else...
There are 3 reasons a set can be called mizong quan.
1. Because it is related to yanqing quan as above.
2. Because it later became a term to mean deceptive, so non related but deceptive sets were called mizong quan.
3. Mizong has another meaning. It means 'lost path' and is a name that was given to forms that had lost their lineage. I.e a form that no one can remember where it came from, or a form that was constructed from several different styles could also be called mizong quan.
It is possible this that the mizong quan sets are lost lineage sets so have the name mizong quan. They are very cool, but with very unusual movements.
@wuseng33
On Xinyiba, no its a little more complicated than that. Pao quan can be used well with xinyiba. XInyiba is not just a series of movements, there is some kind of formula....
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also interestingly, in the encyclopedia for the first xinyiquan set it gives the history, and says it was created during the northern wei dynasty by one of the first monks at the monastery, former general and disciple of batuo- sengchou.
it says originally it was only 6 postures, and through a direct line of descendants was expanded to 10 postures. then in the song/yuan dynasties it was further developed upon by monk jueyuan and bai yufeng into the 45 postures set.
of course, if all that is to be believed, then this shaolin xinyiquan (at least from the original 6 postures) must be one of the oldest sets recorded! it would predate the rest of the main shaolin material by at least 5-800 years.
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That is amazing, if true.Originally Posted by LFJ
Can you read and post here the history material for the Chang Hu Xin Yi Men set in that book? It gives an extensive write up for that set.
Also, for the Xin Yi Chang Quan set shown as well?
thanks!
C
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for changhuxinyimenquan the encyclopedia says it was created in the song dynasty by monk huiwei (惠威) with 36 original postures which were extended by disciples to 66 postures. then in the yuan dynasty it was extended to 72 postures by jinnaluo (紧那罗), then to 82 postures by monk zi'an (子安).
in the ming dynasty it was altered by monks juexun (觉训), tongyang (通样) and others. they improved the skills, made the structure tighter and gave it a distinctive style.
it then names several qing dynasty monks who were well-known practitioners. especially monk jiran (寂然) who after 10 years of hard training with it made substantial alterations. he took out 28 repetitive postures (from the 82 posture set), and added 30 new postures, to total 84.
it then ends by saying monk jiqin (寂勤) during the years of the republic of china taught the set to liu fatai, liu jingwen, wu shanlin, wang dingyi, and others. it also names liu baoshan, wu chaofan, wang zongren and others as today's inheritors of this gongfu.
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for the xinyi changquan set the encyclopedia is very brief. just says monk zhenxu (贞绪) (suxi's master) combined the basic skills of changquan & xinyiquan with his own combat experience to create the set of 46 postures.
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Hmm, pretty modern times set then. A fun though set though, none the less.
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right. ven. zhenxu created a lot of new sets. this xinyi changquan, longquanjian (dragon spring sword), yanxingdao (wild-goose shape broadsword), etc.. he also revised some other sets, like the nanyuan shuangdao.
when he came to shaolin from longxing monastery after the passing of his master he started studying with abbot henglin, who as we know from the other thread created the dameihuaquan set. so i guess he inspired ven. zhenxu's creativity.
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LFJ, no its not the shi san gong I studied this also, the set i know is maybe double if not more the length of the shi san gong and also contains similar movements. for me it is similar to doing a cross between shi san gong and pao quan. with elements of both combined. (sorry to go off topic again)
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Oh, you mean the Rou Quan Er Lu set that Zhu Tian XI teaches in his vcd series?
That's not the real name for the set, it's a name used for convenience.
The set is really long, like 108 moves, many more movements.
It contains the whole Luohan 13 Gong (and Luohan 13 Quan) within it.
I had posted on YouTube two versions of it by Zhu Tianxi, one from the VCD series and one from his youth, in which he leaves out a section in the middle.
It starts with "piercing behind the back" and then goes into Kai Men (open the gate) movements (twice), and then goes into Pierce the Ears, then Silk reeling, and then Planting Fist, from that into Luohan Bears a Flag (also known as Tiger movement from Xin Yi Ba), then some movements before going into an elbow strike, etc., etc.
That routine?
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yes it is the rou quan er lu set i am talking about (sorry if there was some confusion) i am in china and cant see the youtube video's and i have searched the chinese pages but could not find the set on the net but the way you describe it sounds exacly the same.
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okay! Mystery solved.
Well, I would say that Rou Quan, Taizu Chang Quan, Hong Quan, and Pao Quan go together like peas in a pod.
One big interlocking puzzle, the roots of both Henan Tongbei Quan (from 1500s) and later Chen Taiji Quan. Throw in Luohan Quan and you have the roots of Chang family Neijia Quan too.
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wuseng33,
if you call that 108 posture rouquan set "rouquan erlu", then is it the luohan shisangong rouquan set you call yilu?
through ven. suxi's lineage? out of interest, with whom did you study these sets?
Registered User
Yeah! I'd like to know that too.wuseng33,
if you call that 108 posture rouquan set "rouquan erlu", then is it the luohan shisangong rouquan set you call yilu?
through ven. suxi's lineage? out of interest, with whom did you study these sets?
And, what about the SAN LU Rou Quan set.
Luohan Shisan Gong Quan is yi lu, the 108 is er lu, and there is a San Lu.
Have you learned or seen it?
These three sets come from Shi Degen, I didn't know that Suxi learned them from him?
Shaolin has a different Rou Quan Yi Lu and ER Lu, its supposedly from a different lineage and time period.
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Shi Yong Xin's Chan Hu Xin Yi Men book vs:
- Shaolin Encyc. version is pretty close, up until the very last section, then they go astray pretty much. Shi Yongxin's version has more transitional movements shown as well.
- Tagou version is close to about half way through the set, then they go far far astray from each other, barely matching up to the very end of the sets. Tagou verison has too many repeating parts that get very confusing.
What can I say?
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