Shaolin Tong Bi Quan

[LFJ]

Deyangs Master SuXi was Nanyuan pai, so I guess it makes sense, I would imagine RenSHouTongBei would have been one of his central sets of technique.

Yes, in fact a direct disciple of Zhenxu. "Zhan ji chun zhen su" as the poem goes.

I've talked to Deyang about Zhenxu before, and we also discussed the renshou hand shape from this.

But last time I was focussed on getting the bead set from him. My interest has be resparked for Renshou Xiaotongbiquan. I will have to see what I can hear from him on it next time.

[LFJ]

Centuries later the guard posts and shrine area of Shaolin practiced the Shaolin Kan Jia Quan style, and the Big Swan Fist books say that Shaolin Kan Jia came from Big Swan Fist (and the sets clearly show this), then more than likely Shaolin Kanjia developed out of Shaolin Tongbi Quan.

I was looking at some of the Kanjiaquan sets lately, and noticed that several of the sets feature an advancing single left-right tuizhang followed by a simultaneous crossing front-rear tuizhang, which resembles the xiexing posture.

This three move sequence is essentially the main technique of Renshou Xiaotongbiquan, except there it uses qiangshou instead of tuizhang, and the hands are horizontal rather than vertical in the xiexing posture. But it is essentially the same sequence of movements.

Just an observation. The main technique of Renshou Xiaotongbiquan features numerous times in several of the Kanjiaquan sets.

[RenDaHai]

The move is indeed XieXing.

It is one of the most ubiquitous Kung fu moves found within just about every style.

In Shaolins Xiyuan Pai it is often done differently in different forms, sometimes appearing with fists, palms, one fist one palm, rear hand up, rear hand down, rear hand horizontal, vertical fists, horizontal fists, hammers, one hook one palm (like in Taiji). These different versions represent the many different applications. In some shaolin sects however it always appears the same way. This gives less confusion and a more profound movement, but makes it harder to realise the full range of application.

Kanjia Quan does use the same combo, one-two-pow! The combo is more similar even than you mentioned, after the XieXing in kan jia quan it often returns to a xubu guard. RenShouTongBei always returns to a Xubu guard after xiexing. Kanjia Quan is pretty cool. I wonder if Dejun has all 13 sets.....

[Royal Dragon]

For those of us taught in English, where 80% of the techniques we know are named "Do This", what is XieXing?

[RenDaHai]

斜行

Slanted step. Also sometimes 斜型.

Called slanted/oblique/diagonal because the arms are across the stance as opposed to in line with it like Dan bian, although it is essentially the same technique. In SongShan it is often referred to as XieCeng (I cant find the character) which means like to pull something apart, in reference to the way the hands open as you lead with the elbows. This ends attacking on a diagonal.



(Thanks to DenverShaolinTaiji, its the first image of XieXing I came across)

[GeneChing]

I remember Shi Guolin was coaching me on this and he was really into accentuating the twist in this. One of his shenfa skills focused on spine flexibility, to maximize cross-character strikes (ie right hand, left foot strikes). When he practiced these techniques, he would have so much twist that his front fist and his rear fist would both be in line with his feet. I never had the flexibility to do that like he did. It wasn't really 'slanted' but who was I to argue?

[LFJ]

When he practiced these techniques, he would have so much twist that his front fist and his rear fist would both be in line with his feet.

That's like how the xiexing is done in the Sanhuangbang set where it is called shizichui (crossed hammers): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kJ8unUIlgM

[GeneChing]

LFJ, for some reason, that bass line really works for that performance for me.

Guolin used to also cross his hand and foot when doing kick-punch combos where the right punch was coupled with the left foot and vice versa. That was odd for me because prior to that, I always tried to visualize my target, consequently aiming both punch and kick to the same center-line. But Guolin did that twist in basics to open up the flexibility more.

[Royal Dragon]

斜行

Slanted step. Also sometimes 斜型.

Called slanted/oblique/diagonal because the arms are across the stance as opposed to in line with it like Dan bian, although it is essentially the same technique. In SongShan it is often referred to as XieCeng (I cant find the character) which means like to pull something apart, in reference to the way the hands open as you lead with the elbows. This ends attacking on a diagonal.



(Thanks to DenverShaolinTaiji, its the first image of XieXing I came across)

Ahhh!! Gotchya!! I learned it as "Do that one like this"

[Royal Dragon]

That's like how the xiexing is done in the Sanhuangbang set where it is called shizichui (crossed hammers): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kJ8unUIlgM

This is my favorite set at the moment!! I can't tell if it's the sequence itself, or because I learned it off of this video and I like it due to the funky music!!

I have take down applications for almost every inch of this set btw. It's the best version I have seen, and the only one that makes complete sense from start to finish.

[Howard]

That's like how the xiexing is done in the Sanhuangbang set where it is called shizichui (crossed hammers): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kJ8unUIlgM

We have Shizi Chui in Bafan Shou but it is a double striking whilst Xie Xing is swing and strike from what I see, so not really same - how it ends up is different to how it moves.

[LFJ]

We have Shizi Chui in Bafan Shou but it is a double striking whilst Xie Xing is swing and strike from what I see, so not really same - how it ends up is different to how it moves.

The xiexing movement is not always done the same, as RDH was speaking on the variations earlier. In my school, the way it is almost always done is with double hammers (chui). Although the body twists and the stance turns the strikes are not swinging like hook punches with the knuckles. They lead with the elbows and 'tear apart' as RDH was explaining in the translation of xieceng, and end up delivering crossing hammer strikes (shizichui). It's much like a spinning top might shoot out a projectile which would not be sent swinging.

[LFJ]

Kanjia Quan is pretty cool. I wonder if Dejun has all 13 sets.....

He should have. The intro on his videos says in 1906, Shi Zhenfang took the Kanjiaquan manual to Shandong province, and in 1936 passed it on to Shi Sufa (who was actually a disciple of Shi Zhenqiu). Shi Sufa then trained it for 50 years and passed it to his disciple Shi Dejun in 1986.

The Shaolin Encyclopedia shows the sets based on Shi Sufa's demonstration. So, Shi Dejun should have them all. He has videos on roads 1, 2, 3, 5, and 7. But some of those of course change direction and leave out or add moves. His #7 is really strange. It doesn't follow the Encyc. for #7 at all, or any other road. And the silly-looking duck walk he does in that one and another one doesn't seem to appear at all in the Encyc.. So not only are his sets badly marked, but they make you look like a fool if you copy them too!

[RenDaHai]

Cool. Yes I've heard of Sufa,

I have the Kanjia videos somewhere, I'll have to have a look. There is a guy who did VCDs of ShiSanZhua, (completely different to my ShSanZhua) but I think the only video available. In his other videos he has the Kanjia sets, only under a different name and only 10. They are very detailed though. Set 1 is almost identical. I wonder where his stuff comes from...

I met a woman head mistress of a school in DengFeng who knew the Kanjia quan, learned from her father... Her photo is in the encyclopedia. But she wasn't willing to teach, maybe If I'd spent more time there.

Thats the only place I've seen it in dengfeng.

[LFJ]

I have the Kanjia videos somewhere, I'll have to have a look. There is a guy who did VCDs of ShiSanZhua, (completely different to my ShSanZhua) but I think the only video available. In his other videos he has the Kanjia sets, only under a different name and only 10. They are very detailed though. Set 1 is almost identical. I wonder where his stuff comes from...

Interesting. Well, the system has moved around and morphed into different things, like the 10 sets of Northern Shaolin. So I wouldn't be surprised if there were other evolutions of it to be found elsewhere and under other names as well.