Busted TCM practitioners

[KTS]

By Leslie Korngold • lkorngol@lohud.com • August 25, 2009

SCARSDALE - An agitated acupuncture business owner damaged a Dunkin' Donuts cash register and a Scarsdale police holding cell last night, police said.

Police said Damien Chang, 42, of Mahopac, the proprietor of Za Oh Pyung Acupuncture, 6 Depot Place, next door to the 10 Depot Place Dunkin' Donuts, was yelling at doughnut shop employees and throwing his arms in the air when police arrived, Lt. Bryant Clark said.

Chang had punched the store's cash register, breaking it, Clark said.

Outside, he gestured at police and made verbal threats, Clark said.

At the double trailer police are temporarily housed in, Chang kicked the holding cell door, causing major damage to it, Clark said.

Chang has been charged with second- and third-degree criminal mischief, felonies, and disorderly conduct, a violation.

Police do not know what caused the 10:19 p.m. blowup.

Clark said it took time to identify Chang in part due to a language barrier. Chang was being held at the Westchester County jail until his court appearance tomorrow.

i can almost swear i saw this on tv!!!! or something at least similar. pretty sure it was this story though!

[GeneChing]

Here's a little more on that Massapequa massage.

Prostitution Arrest in North Massapequa

The Narcotics/Vice Squad reports the arrests of two Queens women for prostitution and performing illegal massages in North Massapequa on Monday, Oct. 26 at 1:50 p.m.

According to detectives, Sioim Sun and Yonghua Huang, both of Flushing Queens, did perform massage therapy on an undercover detective inside of Qigong Tuina/Accupressure, Accupuncture Bodywork located at 898A North Broadway. Sun offered to perform a sexual act, for an additional fee, detectives added.

Sun and Huang, who are not licensed to practice massage therapy, were placed under arrest at 3:15 p.m. Both defendants are being charged with Unauthorized Practice of a Crime and Possession of a Forged Instrument 2nd Degree. Sun is additionally being charged with Prostitution. They were arraigned on Tuesday, Oct. 27 in First District Court, Hempstead.

[taai gihk yahn]

Here's a little more on that Massapequa massage.

it's interesting about the charge of "illegal massage"; the reason being is that most of these places actually do not advertise massage on their signs, they advertise "bodywork", which, technically, is not illegal in NY State - this is how all the non-licensed folks who do therapeutic hands-on work (such as Reiki, Zero Balancing, Trager, Alexander Technique, Feldenkreis, Rosen Method, BodyMind Centering, Reflexology, CranialSacral Therapy, Rolfing, etc.) are able to advertise but not get nailed on claiming that they do massage; of course, don't get me started in general on non-licensed people who offer treatment services to the general public (and I don't include TCMA teachers who go learn viable dit da in order to treat their own students, that's totally appropriate, IMPO)

[mawali]

it's interesting about the charge of "illegal massage"; the reason being is that most of these places actually do not advertise massage on their signs, they advertise "bodywork", which, technically, is not illegal in NY State - this is how all the non-licensed folks who do therapeutic hands-on work (such as Reiki, Zero Balancing, Trager, Alexander Technique, Feldenkreis, Rosen Method, BodyMind Centering, Reflexology, CranialSacral Therapy, Rolfing, etc.) are able to advertise but not get nailed on claiming that they do massage; of course, don't get me started in general on non-licensed people who offer treatment services to the general public (and I don't include TCMA teachers who go learn viable dit da in order to treat their own students, that's totally appropriate, IMPO)

It comes down to professional regulation!
The pair claimed to practice massage therapy but somehow offered to do 'other therapy/services' for additional money, which caused the illegal flag to be turned on. As long as protocol in the name of health/wellness has been followed, then the already certified others as Zero Balancing, Trager, Rolfing (they have their own certiication) are within the rules then all is fine.

Appropriatness is a better clue to legal or illegal therapy!

[GeneChing]

She's fully certified and doesn't advertise at all. Her business is strictly word-of-mouth and she's constantly dealing with rather obvious undercover cops trying to book appointments. They're pretty easy to figure out since all of her recommendations are chart-able. So it's troublesome both ways.

[MarathonTmatt]

She's fully certified and doesn't advertise at all. Her business is strictly word-of-mouth and she's constantly dealing with rather obvious undercover cops trying to book appointments. They're pretty easy to figure out since all of her recommendations are chart-able. So it's troublesome both ways.

I know this post is old, but is still relevant. I always wondered how does one deal w/ nonsense when a place is obviously a legit TCM clinic? I think a lot of Americans and probably "westerners" in general don't realize how inter-twined TCM and CMA are linked together within the traditional cultural context of the Chinese culture.
But as people have mentioned there are many non-legit places that pop up that give clinics a bad name- some probably involved in human trafficking, gangs etc.
Some years ago while attending a Tai Chi class 2 guys had come into my teacher's studio, and were leaving as class was starting. They had obviously received treatment before class and said "it wasn't what they were expecting" and were "disappointed." Now by this time class had filled up with about half a dozen of us for Chen style Tai Chi and Push Hands. My teacher invited those two men to observe the class which they did for about 10 minutes, they kept looking at each other puzzled, then slunk their way out the door.
Now what got me was this- my teacher is a Chinese doctor. she is also a tai chi and qigong master, having expanded her training w/ some quite prolific masters such as master's Feng Zhi Qiang, Li De Yin (one of her teacher's from China who visited) and the list goes on. She has newspaper clippings & certificate's on her wall about her Tai Chi school/ medicine clinic, several of her books/ DVD's are displayed on the front counter, she has a room full of herbs, her son, husband sometimes work there, and a couple of the people she employs are caucasion etc. How the heck did those 2 guys think they would have a good time at this place? It puzzled me.
Do some people simply have no clue whatsoever? Oh well I think my teacher did a good job by starting class and having them observe- and when you watch my teacher lead a class you are watching a master. I just couldn't believe these guys could be so stupid, and also, I found it insulting.
During one of our kung-fu movie nights my teacher said Chinese masters of kung fu were always also doctors/ knew medicine in the old days as we were watching "Iron Monkey".
Anyway. End rant. It would be good to get someone else's take on the issue who understands what I'm trying to get at here.. in other words, how do we educate people? Maybe they'll just never know? What about undercover cops and for lack of better word "not-so-nice" people in an obviously legit clinic? If I was one of those people I would've walked through the door, seen the obvious, taken a pamphlet about classes offered from the front to be polite and walked on out of there...

[GeneChing]

Do some people simply have no clue whatsoever?

lol. Dude, just surf this forum for a while. You'll find plenty of posters who have no clue. But that's ok. We are here to give them some clues.

[taai gihk yahn]

She's fully certified and doesn't advertise at all. Her business is strictly word-of-mouth and she's constantly dealing with rather obvious undercover cops trying to book appointments. They're pretty easy to figure out since all of her recommendations are chart-able. So it's troublesome both ways.

It comes down to professional regulation!
The pair claimed to practice massage therapy but somehow offered to do 'other therapy/services' for additional money, which caused the illegal flag to be turned on. As long as protocol in the name of health/wellness has been followed, then the already certified others as Zero Balancing, Trager, Rolfing (they have their own certiication) are within the rules then all is fine.

Appropriatness is a better clue to legal or illegal therapy!

here's my issue w/unlicensed practitioners: if all you are doing is treating friends and family and not receiving any payment, go for it; however, as soon as you start treating the general public, especially if you are advertising treatment for clinical conditions (and word of mouth is still advertising) and especially if you are taking payment for it, the issue is this: ANY treatment that has the potential to address a clinical condition, has the potential to harm; if it doesn't, then it's not skilled therapy (sorry, no free lunches - if the reiki people think it's all good, then good for them, but getting attuned, while not a bad thing, is not skill acquisition, and the way one applies things of that sort has nothing to do with clinical acumen); if it's not skilled therapy, then there's no reason to train in it or to charge for it; if one is applying a technique that requires skilled application, either in appropriateness (requiring clinical reasoning skills as to type of condition, state of patient, etc.), or in delivery (selection / duration / frequency / amplitude of application, etc.), then there is always the possibility that the patient will have an adverse effect if the therapy is improperly applied; if there is improper application and the patient experiences an untoward effect, then the possibility of negligence arises; if there was negligence, then the practitioner needs to be held accountable for that negligence; if the practitioner is licensed, then the client has recourse both in terms of filing a complaint with the appropriate licensing agency or a lawsuit - the point is that the practitioner is able to be held accountable for their actions;
on the flip side, if one sees an unlicensed bodyworker and afterwards has some bad effect, that's too bad for you: the client has no recourse, and there is no accountability on the part of the practitioner - you can't get their license revoked and you can't sue them, because there is no means by which what they did can be held to any standard of care; the best you might do is have them brought up on charges for illegal activities, but good luck if they contend that they were not doing something that they were legally barred from doing - how do you prove it?
don't get me wrong - I am not saying that unlicensed people lack skill, but if they are skilled and want to do what they do for a living, then they need to consider how to best protect the interests of their clients, and getting licensed (not just certified, as these are private entities doing that, not the state) is the ethical way to do that;

[Lucas]

i can almost swear i saw this on tv!!!! or something at least similar. pretty sure it was this story though!

wow, that guy must have some serious kungfu!

damaging the holding cell door with a kick? those things are made to take punishment and NOT get damaged!

[Consuelo]

i can almost swear i saw this on tv!!!! or something at least similar. pretty sure it was this story though!

but yeah, my "brush" w/these places was one in my old neighborhood that advertised tuina and qigong - I was like, "Hmmm, storefront tuina and qigong in my neighborhood? what a bargain! But soft, let us see what reward Dame Fortune might bestow upon my inquires..."; needless to say, it was immediately obvious the nature of the beast (literally - the old bag was definitey one of the Lee sisters - you know, Ug, Beast & Home...)