The International Tai Chi Chuan Symposium

[Bob Ashmore]

Three Harmonies,
That's not what the Symposium is about. The Symposium is specifically for "Health, Education and Cultural Exchange".
The Symposium was designed as a way to highlight the aspects of the art beyond the martial.
Tai Chi Chuan makes a lot of claims as a "health style", the Symposium was designed to give Healthcare providers, educators and the top Masters of the art of Tai Chi Chuan a chance to get together in one place and explore that aspect of the art from a scientific perspective.
We wanted to step away from the martial arts and explore the other aspects of the art that don't often get brought out in the open in such a public fashion.
There isn't a single thing wrong with martial arts seminars, I go to as many as I can, but this was designed with an entirely different meaning.
Take a look around on the internet. How many martial arts related TCC seminars do you see advertised? There are hundreds, probably thousands, of them every year. Why do another one of those?

To each their own, as you say. I, for one, discovered a lot about TCC that I did not know and I've been a student of the art for 21 years.
I think it was wildly succesful specificially for that reason.

Bob

[Three Harmonies]

Honestly... I see very, very few people actually training Taiji as a martial art. Very few seminars, classes, etc. Certainly hear / see more of the "health" aspect of Taiji than anything else IME.

Cheers
Jake

[GeneChing]

Some people limit martial arts only to being fighting other fighters. But in a broader sense, martial arts is about fighting for personal health. Obviously, you need to be healthy to be a decent fighter. General health comes before anything in the martial arts. And as we age, that becomes a much more formidable opponent than anyone you'll face on the street or in the ring.

Don't fault others because they can only make it a short way down the path. You can fault people for thinking they've gone a long way when they've only gone a short way - that's ego and ego is always a fault. But to limit martial arts to a narrow personal definition is also ego.

Tai chi as a combat method will always be with us. You, of all people, Jake, know how effective it can be when trained properly. People like you will always continue to train it so because an effective method has intrinsic value. However, in all honesty, only a few can really train martial arts fully. The bulk of practitioners in America are nibblers. But there's nothing wrong with that. Quite the opposite, if martial arts is to grow, we need more nibblers. So don't be a hater. Support the tai chi nibblers.

That being said, I don't think this particular symposium was about nibbling at all. Bringing tai chi under an academic lens, especially when it comes to therapeutic benefits is very progressive. That's what our Tai Chi as medicine thread is all about. That's a future path of tai chi which holds so much promise.

[Bob Ashmore]

Three,
As you say, to each their own.
I have gone to quite a few "martial" seminars for Tai Chi Chuan over the years. I quite enjoy them.
Me? I'm what Gene called a "nibbler".
I started training TCC for the martial aspects. I learned quite a lot of the martial art, though I wasn't very good at it (my own fault, I was quite young and when I started and after learning a few "tricks" I was satisified).
I thought I really "had it" at that time and was convinced of my own greatness.
That's when I met my current teacher, who very quickly disabused me of the notion that I was any good at the martial aspects by the simple expedient of taking me to the ground on a regular basis.
When I asked him what I was doing wrong, the answer was quite simple: "All of it".
That's when I was finally introduced to the principles of TCC.
I've been working on learning the underlying principles of the art ever since.
I'm still lousy at the martial art, but I've made vast improvements. It's not as easy to take me to the ground as it once was, so I'll keep going.
Along the way, I learned quite a bit about anatomy, kinesiology and health.
My advancing years have taught me that "fighting" isn't as easy as it looks, but that "healing" is even harder.
Personal healing as well as helping to heal others has become sort of a passion of mine lately.
I think it convenient that I happen to be training a "martial art" that allows me to do both.
That said, I've been "teaching" Tai Chi Chuan for a while now. You know what? I have yet to have a single person show up to one of my classes asking me to teach them how to fight.
Not once.
I get asked to teach people how to do "That healthy Tai Chi thing".
Some are interested in the martial aspects, to be sure, but most are not the least interested in that side of things.
I have tried to run classes that are geared toward the martial aspects, I have very few people sign up for them. But when I advertise "Tai Chi for Health" or "Chi Kung for Health" classes, I fill up nearly every one of them.
There seems to be more of an interest in the health maintenance side of the art than the martial side.
Since they are both the same thing, I don't see what difference it makes really. If you learn one side, you learn them both.
"The more you know, the more you know you don't know. The more you know, the faster you will learn."

Bob

[DRAGONSIHING]

Thanks for the reply. Will be looking forward for info on 2012. All the other replies were interesting and informative. I do TCC for health and keeping my martial arts training from the past alive. My teacher has also done other martial arts in his younger days but really concentrates on training his TCC. WE do share applications, but for many in the classes its health first, MA second. MP

[Skip J.]

snip...

I've been "teaching" Tai Chi Chuan for a while now. You know what? I have yet to have a single person show up to one of my classes asking me to teach them how to fight.
Not once.
I get asked to teach people how to do "That healthy Tai Chi thing".
Some are interested in the martial aspects, to be sure, but most are not the least interested in that side of things.
I have tried to run classes that are geared toward the martial aspects, I have very few people sign up for them. But when I advertise "Tai Chi for Health" or "Chi Kung for Health" classes, I fill up nearly every one of them.
There seems to be more of an interest in the health maintenance side of the art than the martial side.
Since they are both the same thing, I don't see what difference it makes really. If you learn one side, you learn them both.
"The more you know, the more you know you don't know. The more you know, the faster you will learn."

Bob

Yes..... exactly!

Well said Bob......

[Three Harmonies]

Good points by all. I was not trying to put down anyone or any approach. It is just when I see a large group gathering with such names I personally would want to pick each and every one of their brains in terms of combatives. But again, that is me. I understand what the majority want, and how the majority will train.

I am glad the event went well for all!

Cheers
Jake

[GeneChing]

...but I did hear there was some applications discussions in the hallways. The presentations were formal but there was some hands on for those who were interested. We sent a freelance reporter and he was rather impressed by some of the application material he was privy to (but such is the perk of being a reporter).

There seems to be more of an interest in the health maintenance side of the art than the martial side.
Since they are both the same thing, I don't see what difference it makes really. If you learn one side, you learn them both.

I'd agree that there is more of an interest in health since health is more fundamental and general. It's preposterous to want to be a good fighter when you don't have your health as a solid foundation. But I don't think they are the same thing and I do see a rather distinct difference. You could totally train taiji strictly for health and never get to the martial part. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, we need more people to do that to increase our base population. That's just the first step however. Then next step is to learn the martial aspect, and not a symbolic martial as in combating disease and such. The combative methods of taiji - the nuts and bolts of how to take some one out - that's a very important element to authentic taiji. Most Western practitioners completely miss this. They might think they get it, but when push comes to shove (quite literally) they don't really have it. There's the only problem that I see.

There's a significant population of martial artists that never really learn to fight well - that's fine - I imagine that's always been so. Ultimately, to become a good fighter is challenging. It's not a democratic process - not everyone can achieve that level. The problem lies within those that get unrealistic ideas about their ability. That really falls on them (and their instructor).

So to be Devil's Advocate here, I totally hear what Three Harmonies is saying. I'm actually of the same persuasion. I charged our freelance reporter with the task of getting some applications. We talked at Legends of Kung Fu after and he seemed very satisfied on that account. Just like at most tournaments, there's the event itself which presents itself for public consumption, and then there's what happens in the hallways between presentations - that's where the best transmission tends to happen.

We'll have a report in our next issue.

[Bob Ashmore]

Gene,
I'll agree to disagree about self defense and the health sides of TCC being the same thing.
I see them as the same and for very good reasons, but that's my opinion and no else needs to agree with it.

I was privy to a few of those "hallway" discussions myself. Not with the Grand Masters themselves but certainly with some of the "Entourage" that came with them.
Most of what I ran into that I would consider "hallway" discussions were actually about Tui Shou, pushing hands, but there were a number of them that were about actual applications.
The stuff that goes on "on the side" is what I've always considered to be the best part of any kind of seminar.

As for the level of martial arts that most TCC players today receive...
I can only say that each person most likely gets to the level they want. You have to want to level up in order to do it and I just don't see that kind of interest.
I have always had a pretty big interest in the martial side of TCC and so I have received a good deal of information and training on the subject.
Why? Because I asked for it.
I'm definitely not interested in trying to make myself seem like the next Yang Lu Chan. I'm not and I never will be. I'm not very good at the martial apps, so don't think I'm blowing any kind of horn here. I need a LOT more practice.
However, I also am not just some palooka that walked in off the street.
I guess I'd be considered to be somewhere in the middle on that scale.
And... I don't have any probelm with that.
Could I stand up against a Master of the martial arts of any style? Nope, I sure couldn't. I'd get twisted up and tossed around like a rag doll, if not worse, no question about it. I don't train to that level, never have and, unless I hit that lottery this weekend, I most likely never will.
I have a job, a house, kids, a wife and two cars. All these things need attention and must come before my favored pass time of training TCC. This keeps me from becoming the next Tai Chi Chuan Master of Martial Adeptness.
However, when I've needed the skills to defend myself against attackers (a part of my life that I am quite glad to say doesn't happen very often any more) I have been able to defend myself adequately.
I asked my teachers to teach me to defend myself, they did. That's what it came down to.
However, even if you're not interested in the martial side of things, just learning the correct movements can and will increase your ability to defend yourself. Not to the same extent that someone who trains the actual combat art will be, but more so than if you had never trained anything.

Just for laughs and giggles, I asked all of my students this weekend a question: Do you want to learn more of the martial art of TCC?
The almost universal response: No, not really.
Then, again just for laughs and giggles, I pulled one of the longer term students who had expressed such an interest, but has never trained in that fashion, aside and asked him to allow me to conduct an experiment. He was nervous, but he agreed.
Then I took a poke at him.
No, I did not throw full force and if my punch would have landed I would not have hurt him. I just wanted to see what would happen. I was pleasantly surprised.
He "warded off" my incoming strike without even thinking about it.
His arm came up into "ward off" and he exhibited more than enough "peng" in his movement that my incoming strike was lifted and rolled uselessly to the side.
That's not bad, considering that this gentleman had never trained any kind of martial art before.
Now, it's not going to do much to help during the real deal, but it goes to show that learning a motor skill repetitively is at least going to get you out of the first punch. What you do after that is just as important, and is where the real training comes in, but keeping that first hit off of you has got to be better than nothing at all.

I've made this experiment before, with a wide range of my students. The result is nearly always the same.
So while there are going to be very, very few martialy adept students of TCC, there are a legion of students with "possibilities" out there.

No real point, just my ramblings.

Bob

[Skip J.]

Gene,
I'll agree to disagree about self defense and the health sides of TCC being the same thing. I see them as the same and for very good reasons, but that's my opinion and no else needs to agree with it.

As for the level of martial arts that most TCC players today receive...

I can only say that each person most likely gets to the level they want.

You have to want to level up in order to do it and I just don't see that kind of interest. I have always had a pretty big interest in the martial side of TCC and so I have received a good deal of information and training on the subject.
Why? Because I asked for it. I'm definitely not interested in trying to make myself seem like the next Yang Lu Chan. I'm not and I never will be. I'm not very good at the martial apps, so don't think I'm blowing any kind of horn here. I need a LOT more practice. No real point, just my ramblings.

Bob

And I come along wayyyyy below Bob, but the issue is the same.

What I see on the ground is that taiji taught to paying students in a martial arts studio environment is a lot more martial in nature.

On the other hand, taiji taught in a rec center/senior center environment for free or nearly free is a whole 'nother animal. Bob has already covered that aspect very well above, no need for me to add anything. Bob, I apologize in advance if your students are in a studio.....

Anyway, most of the folks on here come from a ma studio background rich in a heritage of hard training and martial apps. Altho there are not many of us here from the rec center side, we too chose to concentrate on the apps - or we wouldn't be here on a regular basis. However, the great bulk of taiji folks are coming week after week, year after year for the elegant exercise described in the local bulletin of the rec center. The few guys who do come are more likely to want it, but not all of them do either. A significant number of the guys are there with with their wives; they're retired and have nothing else to do with their time.

[TaichiMantis]

Honestly... I see very, very few people actually training Taiji as a martial art. Very few seminars, classes, etc. Certainly hear / see more of the "health" aspect of Taiji than anything else IME.

Cheers
Jake

Our Sifu teaches it as a martial art. He switches between forms and applications every other class.

[mawali]

Next reality show title:

'Who wants to be the next Yang Luchan?

[Skip J.]

Our Sifu teaches it as a martial art. He switches between forms and applications every other class.

Yesssss....

I see from your website that your's is exactly the studio "environment" I was speaking of...

Nice website by the way! You certainly bend over backwards to explain the mantis "way" ..... my compliments!

[GeneChing]

Our next issue hits the newsstands on Oct 6th with a news report and a related feature article. Subscribe now.

Tai Chi practitioners and enthusiasts from across the globe attended the symposium at Vanderbilt.
Symposium sheds light on benefits of Tai Chi
BY: LI-JUN MA
8/28/2009 -

More than 400 Tai Chi masters, scholars and practitioners from across the world came to Vanderbilt this summer for a special symposium sponsored by the Vanderbilt Center for Integrative Health.

The symposium, sponsored by the International Yang family Tai Chi Chuan Association, offered a chance to study with five of China’s top masters and the opportunity to learn more about the latest research on the health benefits of Tai Chi Chuan.

“Evidence documenting the advantage of mind-body disciplines grows daily,” said Roy Elam, M.D., medical director of the Center for Integrative Health.

The martial art of Tai Chi Chuan was created in China more than 400 years ago, and consists of a series of slow, relaxed and graceful movements. It requires coordination of mind and body to focus on the cultivation of internal energy and to develop balance.

Often referred to as a moving meditation, Tai Chi Chuan helps reduce stress, increase strength, improve balance and coordination and enhance concentration.

Among those presenting research at the symposium were:

• Shin Lin, M.D., professor of Cell Biology, Biomedical Engineering and Integrative Medicine at University of California, Irvine, who reported on “Physiological and Bioenergetic changes associated with Tai Chi;”

• Gloria Yeh, M.D., assistant professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School, who reported on “Tai Chi and Cardiovascular Health;” and

• Nisha Manek, M.D., of the Mayo Clinic, who reported on the potential of Tai Chi Chuan to reduce the risk of osteoarthritis in obese patients.

[GeneChing]

I'm not sure that this is the same event given that it's a decade later. But might as well feed this old thread, right?

Six Traditional Tai Chi Masters and Tai Chi Researchers at International Symposium in Italy
Six leading tai chi masters, representing the traditional styles of Chen, Yang, Wu, Wu (Hao), Sun and He tai chi chuan will give classes and perform at the 2019 International Tai Chi Chuan Symposium: Directly from the Source in Selvino, Italy from May 24 - 29. The symposium, hosted by the Yang Family Tai Chi Chuan Foundation, will bring together tai chi Masters, practitioners, researchers, and health professionals from all over the world.

NEWS PROVIDED BY International Yang Family Association
Apr 02, 2019, 13:45 ET

MILAN, April 2, 2019 /PRNewswire/ -- A unique and exceptional event will take place in Selvino, Italy this May that tai chi enthusiasts everywhere will not want to miss. Six leading tai chi masters, representing the traditional styles of Chen, Yang, Wu, Wu (Hao), Sun and He tai chi chuan will give classes and perform at the 2019 International Tai Chi Chuan Symposium: Directly from the Source in Selvino, Italy from May 24 - 29. The symposium, hosted by the Yang Family Tai Chi Chuan Foundation, will bring together tai chi Masters, practitioners, researchers, and health professionals from all over the world.


Tai Chi Masters

"The symposium is one of the biggest events outside of China for tai chi chuan," said Master Yang Jun, 5th generation inheritor of Yang Family Tai Chi Chuan and President of the Yang Family Tai Chi Chuan Foundation. "This is the first time it is being held in Europe. It will bring top traditional tai chi chuan masters and scientists together to discuss health and wellness benefits, combining the wisdom of Chinese culture with the research of modern science. It is a truly unique event."

During the symposium, the masters will give workshops where participants will learn a 10-movement hand form each master created specifically for the tai chi symposium. They will also be part of a round table discussion on the health benefits of tai chi with researchers. In addition, the masters will headline the Grand Showcase of tai chi and Chinese martial arts performances.

A number of researchers and scholars will present their latest research about tai chi's health benefits at the symposium. Scientific research on tai chi has been growing recently as more and more people practice the art. It has been proven to have excellent results in treating and preventing many health problems. The symposium academic program includes keynote addresses and both oral and poster presentations.

Another feature of the 2019 International Tai Chi Chuan Symposium is the inaugural Yang Family Tai Chi Cup, an international tournament of Yang style tai chi chuan. For the first time, the many schools of Yang tai chi chuan will gather in one place in friendly competition. The tournament will be a reunion of Yang style tai chi players and will demonstrate the interesting diverse variations of Yang tai chi chuan that have developed from many generations of family members and disciples.

"This symposium will truly be a rare opportunity for people to learn from the world's foremost authorities," said Master Yang, "and meet people from every corner of the world. They will be learning Directly from the Source."

For further information please contact: registration@taichisymposium.com