Book recommendation

[lkfmdc]

If that were the case, this forum would be very quiet.

yeah, but a lot more enjoyable

[Yoshiyahu]

Personally I think the forum would be a ton better. If non-Wing Chun guys stop posting in the Wing Chun section. An stick to the threads they know best...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Personally I think the forum would be a ton better. If non-Wing Chun guys stop posting in the Wing Chun section. An stick to the threads they know best...

You have a valid point, are you suggesting that only those with verifiable history in WC post in the WC forum?

[sanjuro_ronin]

You have a valid point, are you suggesting that only those with verifiable history in WC post in the WC forum?

LOL, well...I guess that suggestion didn't go over very well !
LMAO !!

[ChangHFY]

Hey t_niehoff,
Thanks for the book find. I haven't read this one yet, so I'll check it out asap.


see ya,

[duende]

I'd like to add this book to the recommended reading list...

http://www.hfy108.com/forums/showthr...8034#post18034

Very interesting information in regards to the interaction between the Secret Societies and Shaolin Monks. Surprising really...

[t_niehoff]

I'd like to add this book to the recommended reading list...

http://www.hfy108.com/forums/showthr...8034#post18034

Very interesting information in regards to the interaction between the Secret Societies and Shaolin Monks. Surprising really...

Actually, I have read that one too. I agree that in is an interesting book (though expensive). However, most of the "interaction" -- at least significant interaction, like the 5 ancestors of Shaolin starting the triads -- you talk about is reported as folklore and as having been discounted (as factual) my both western and chinese researchers.

[duende]

Actually, I have read that one too. I agree that in is an interesting book (though expensive). However, most of the "interaction" -- at least significant interaction, like the 5 ancestors of Shaolin starting the triads -- you talk about is reported as folklore and as having been discounted (as factual) my both western and chinese researchers.

I didn't say that the Shaolin started the Triads for one thing.

For another, the book clearly states that not only did the Triads exist before the Southern Shaolin Temples, but also postulates that there had to be interaction and assistance between the two organizations due to similar circumstances, traditions, writings.. and so fourth.

Otherwise, I guess it's how you take the information presented. Somethings can be proven, other things can't. But that doesn't mean that all the pieces of the puzzle are clearly known.

But yes.. the book is expensive!

[t_niehoff]

I didn't say that the Shaolin started the Triads for one thing.

For another, the book clearly states that not only did the Triads exist before the Southern Shaolin Temples, but also postulates that there had to be interaction and assistance between the two organizations due to similar circumstances, traditions, writings.. and so fourth.

Otherwise, I guess it's how you take the information presented. Somethings can be proven, other things can't. But that doesn't mean that all the pieces of the puzzle are clearly known.

But yes.. the book is expensive!

If you don't mind, could you please tell me where in the book does it say that there definately was a southern shaolin temple (I know it talks about that as a possibility and how it is being investigated, but I don't remember seeing where this was concluded). Also, could you direct me (a page number would suffice) to where the author concluded "that there had to be interaction and assistance between the two organizations due to similar circumstances, traditions, writings.. and so fourth" as I can't recall that either. Thanks.

[duende]

If you don't mind, could you please tell me where in the book does it say that there definately was a southern shaolin temple (I know it talks about that as a possibility and how it is being investigated, but I don't remember seeing where this was concluded). Also, could you direct me (a page number would suffice) to where the author concluded "that there had to be interaction and assistance between the two organizations due to similar circumstances, traditions, writings.. and so fourth" as I can't recall that either. Thanks.

Correct, the book mentions three possible areas that could possibly be the location of southern shaolin temples.

As for page numbers, there are numerous pages where it gives examples of stories and occasions where there are simularities between Triad folklore stories and poems and those from Shaolin monks.

I don't remember the exact page (I'm at work), but I do recall it even giving an hypothesis that perhaps the monks got some of their folklore traditions from the Triads themselves.

Anyways.. it's a good read. I thought it was both culturally intuitive and well written.

For those interested in this subject matter, our next seminar is going to share some of our family history regarding these matters. I think it will be very informative for both the believers and the cynics.

http://www.hfy108.com/forums/showthr...8037#post18037

[t_niehoff]

Correct, the book mentions three possible areas that could possibly be the location of southern shaolin temples.

As I recall, the book mentions that different areas have been suggested by different groups as being the location of the legendary southern shaolin temple. However, this does not mean that the existence of a southern shaolin temple has been proved or accepted as true by scholars. The author does mention how there are economic ($) incentives, in tourism for example, involved in this.

As for page numbers, there are numerous pages where it gives examples of stories and occasions where there are simularities between Triad folklore stories and poems and those from Shaolin monks.

I don't remember the exact page (I'm at work), but I do recall it even giving an hypothesis that perhaps the monks got some of their folklore traditions from the Triads themselves.

I agree that the author documented that there was some shared folklore, stories, etc. However, I don't think that supports a conclusion "that there had to be interaction and assistance between the two organizations due to similar circumstances, traditions, writings.. and so fourth" as you indicated. And certainly this was not the author's conclusion.

Anyways.. it's a good read. I thought it was both culturally intuitive and well written.

For those interested in this subject matter, our next seminar is going to share some of our family history regarding these matters. I think it will be very informative for both the believers and the cynics.

http://www.hfy108.com/forums/showthr...8037#post18037

I liked the book as well.

As far as HFY "family history" goes, I'm sorry but in my view until a "family" can first be documented and substantiated (with verifiable, independent evidence of lineage), any family history can't be taken seriously.

[duende]

As far as HFY "family history" goes, I'm sorry but in my view until a "family" can first be documented and substantiated (with verifiable, independent evidence of lineage), any family history can't be taken seriously.

Fair enough. I guess this kind of outlook stems from one's own experiences. For myself, while I certainly appreciate "independent evidence of lineage", I also know that in reality, things do not always fit so conveniently into such pre-determined exacting formats.

Thankfully, life is much more extensive and complicated than that imo.

Anyways, best to you, and good training to all.

[t_niehoff]

Fair enough. I guess this kind of outlook stems from one's own experiences. For myself, while I certainly appreciate "independent evidence of lineage", I also know that in reality, things do not always fit so conveniently into such pre-determined exacting formats.

Thankfully, life is much more extensive and complicated than that imo.

In my case,"this kind of outlook" stems from critical thinking -- which requires that we have good (hence, independently verifiable) evidence BEFORE drawing conclusions. In that way, we won't find ourselves believing in things without good evidence to support them.

[Chuan fa]

I have that book and its one I highly recommend.

[duende]

In my case,"this kind of outlook" stems from critical thinking -- which requires that we have good (hence, independently verifiable) evidence BEFORE drawing conclusions. In that way, we won't find ourselves believing in things without good evidence to support them.

Critical thinking aside, both believing and disbelieving can sometimes stem from ignorance.

It is important to have "independently verifialble" evidence, but it has to be enough to truly represent the entire picture at hand BEFORE drawing conclusions.... that's all...