Is Wing Chun Useless?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Is it possible for a BJJ man to beat a Boxer or Muay Thai guy with pure BJJ techniques and No techniques outside of BJJ? That means no techniques from striking art?

BJJ has striking.
BJJ is "divided" between "vale tudo" type MMA traning, MMA typicla training, submission grappling and sport BJJ.
Rickson, Rorion, Rolls and Royce Gracie ( to name a few) defeated many many fighters with nothing than BJJ.

[Yoshiyahu]

BJJ has striking.
BJJ is "divided" between "vale tudo" type MMA traning, MMA typicla training, submission grappling and sport BJJ.
Rickson, Rorion, Rolls and Royce Gracie ( to name a few) defeated many many fighters with nothing than BJJ.

Outside of the MMA Training would a BJJ sport fighter be able to defeat a Muay Thai Guy. Using pure BJJ?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Outside of the MMA Training would a BJJ sport fighter be able to defeat a Muay Thai Guy. Using pure BJJ?

Anything is possible.

people fight, not systems.

[Yoshiyahu]

Anything is possible.

people fight, not systems.

How long have you been training Wing Chun?

What do you like the most about WC?

[lkfmdc]

"beating" someone who does classical Japanese Jiu Jitsu (often with no alive training involved) or something similar like Hapkido is not a lot to "brag about"... and equating it with beating a BJJ black belt is absurd

Too many TMA peple spend so much time trying to find the "secret counter" in their own systems to grappling that they miss the most basic concept, if you don't understand how something works, how can you hope to counter it?

[Yoshiyahu]

"beating" someone who does classical Japanese Jiu Jitsu (often with no alive training involved) or something similar like Hapkido is not a lot to "brag about"... and equating it with beating a BJJ black belt is absurd

Too many TMA peple spend so much time trying to find the "secret counter" in their own systems to grappling that they miss the most basic concept, if you don't understand how something works, how can you hope to counter it?

Excellent post. So What do you think the strenghts of Wing Chun are? Do you still practice WC?

[tjwingchun]

Anybody with any skill in fighting whether learned or instinctive can beat any fighter no matter what their discipline.

Structured understanding of fighting will only ever give you an advantage never a guarantee.

I have trained exclusively in Wing Chun for 35 years, 25 years teaching professionally.

I do not fear any style yet know I am vulnerable in any conflict to the least trained fighter.

Is Wing Chun useless?

I think not.

What is my proof?

I have not been shown otherwise.

The arguments here are not only repetitive but serve no purpose, if you want knowledge ask those who can and are willing to answer, if the ones you ask refuse to consider your question, then maybe the pedistal they have put themselves on has taken them out of range of reality.

[m1k3]

Outside of the MMA Training would a BJJ sport fighter be able to defeat a Muay Thai Guy. Using pure BJJ?

Dude, your problem is there is no such thing as pure BJJ. It takes techniques from anywhere as long as they work. BJJ has striking and kicking. It is not the main part of the training, but it is there. It has picked up takedowns and moves from wrestling, sambo and Judo. Where do you think the Kimura came from.

BJJ is not hung up on this sort of thing, except maybe for Rorion's part of the family.

And why are you so hung up on it? Its not about what someone else can do with their art, even if its the same as yours. Its about what YOU can do with it. When start focusing on improving your own skills rather than riding the coat tails of other people you won't care as much about this kind of stuff, and at that point your going to realize that your are starting down a path of building your own style because everyone is different and everyone does even the same moves differently based on their own build and age and understanding of how the move works.

Train hard and have fun are the only rules that count.

[lkfmdc]

I have trained exclusively in Wing Chun for 35 years, 25 years teaching professionally.

I do not fear any style yet know I am vulnerable in any conflict to the least trained fighter.

25 years in any stand up system can give you a lot of base material in punches, elbows, kicks, knees, etc....

But grappling, particularly GROUND grappling is a very different animal. 25 years of WC and you probably would still commit the most basic of erros in trying to pass the guard for example, because you will fall back on instinct and instinct will get you swept or submitted

[tjwingchun]

Not according to my students, especially the one who has over 12 years of full contact Ju Jitsu as well as a history of street fighting.

[Yoshiyahu]

Well the reason why I make statements is because I want people to see pass their bias. Yes many people on this forum do not have confidence in their art. They feel their art is lacking in someway. Therefore they need to supplement it with another art. But I am woundering why do people feel this way. I was woundering if their any people in these places who feel its not the art but the person. As for me I am sharing my focus and thoughts with you. I just want to open your minds to other possibilities. As for fun thats what this forum is. Mere fun while i am at work...So I understand people have a bias for this an that. But why. Why are you guys so closeminded...

Dude, your problem is there is no such thing as pure BJJ. It takes techniques from anywhere as long as they work. BJJ has striking and kicking. It is not the main part of the training, but it is there. It has picked up takedowns and moves from wrestling, sambo and Judo. Where do you think the Kimura came from.

BJJ is not hung up on this sort of thing, except maybe for Rorion's part of the family.

And why are you so hung up on it? Its not about what someone else can do with their art, even if its the same as yours. Its about what YOU can do with it. When start focusing on improving your own skills rather than riding the coat tails of other people you won't care as much about this kind of stuff, and at that point your going to realize that your are starting down a path of building your own style because everyone is different and everyone does even the same moves differently based on their own build and age and understanding of how the move works.

Train hard and have fun are the only rules that count.

[tjwingchun]

I have to go but will return another day.

Take care out there and stay safe.

[lkfmdc]

Not according to my students, especially the one who has over 12 years of full contact Ju Jitsu as well as a history of street fighting.

ah, yes, the old "my student is a jiu jitsu master and I beat him up regularly" argument

maybe your student is really a white belt, also when you say "full contact Jiu Jitsu" makes me think he does something like Japanese Jiu Jitsu, which is NOT BJJ

Again, it's pretty simple to go down and take a free class at a BJJ place and see what happens....

[sanjuro_ronin]

How long have you been training Wing Chun?

What do you like the most about WC?

Moy Yat WC since 99 more or less.
Although what I do in terms of WC is MY WC not anyone else's, it works or fails based on me, not on who taught or didn't teach me.
What I like best about WC?
being able to fight in a phone booth

[m1k3]

Well the reason why I make statements is because I want people to see pass their bias. Yes many people on this forum do not have confidence in their art. They feel their art is lacking in someway. Therefore they need to supplement it with another art. But I am woundering why do people feel this way. I was woundering if their any people in these places who feel its not the art but the person. As for me I am sharing my focus and thoughts with you. I just want to open your minds to other possibilities. As for fun thats what this forum is. Mere fun while i am at work...So I understand people have a bias for this an that. But why. Why are you guys so closeminded...

Go back and look at UFC 1 - 5. There you had a lot of 1 dimensional fighters going against each other. What shocked everyone was how well the grapplers did. Not just the BJJ guys, but any grappler.

Its not that the strikers never won, but if they couldn't keep the grappler off them how quickly the fight went down hill from there.

Then look at the middle year UFC's. Suddenly the pure grapplers were finding themselves getting owned by people who did both grappling and striking.

What the UFC and others like it have taught us is you need to be well rounded in both grappling and striking to be at the top. Now a days even top BJJ black belts (Mir, Nog, BJ Penn) train their striking game because they know BJJ alone isn't enough.

So why is it so hard for you to admit that as a striker you should probably train some grappling to be a well rounded fighter?