why do wing chun practitioners think wing chun is the end all be all!!!

**Mr Punch** · 03-14-2009, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu

This is because reasonably skilled Wing Chun fighters have the ability to take a fight to an area where their opponent is weak to take advantage.

I assume you are talking about the WC speciality of close range? Which is also one of the grapplers specialities. You are also talking about using fine-motor skills (various aimed strikes to sensitive targets or even openings) against gross-motor skills (wrapping one limb around any part of the body and essentially, falling down)?

Thus Advoiding the ground

You can't avoid what you are standing on. If you don't knock them out on the way in, your theories and you are going down.

An if they go to the ground they can tweak their techniques to get off the ground.

The skilled WCer who spends 95% or more of their time on stand-up, and 5% or less on rolling around with someone else who spends 95% or more of their time on stand-up, and 5% or less on rolling around can 'tweak their techniques to get off the ground'?

Not if the bloke who spends 90% of the time on the ground rolling with someone else who spends 90% of their time on the ground wants to stop them.

But I do plan to spar at some MMA schools is that good enough? BJJ I don't think they allow kicks and punches against them.

That's nearly good enough. Actually sparring at some (assuming reasonable quality) MMA schools would be good enough. Remember to ask them to include a 'to-the-tap' clause, rather than just letting them go with 'to-the-snap', or you'll get a nasty break.

But here some questions ground fighters!

What are techs to escape armbar lock?

How do you escape gaurd posistion to move to the dominant posistion?

Keep asking these kind of questions and you should be able to improve your fighting skills. Ask them of people who are in a position to show, preferably a class.

Didn't Bruce Lee do some Jiujitsu too? Wasn't it bruce lee known for biting when he got tangled up. Or did he get his teeth knocked out?

Bruce Lee had maybe one fight, apart from the roof-top debacles. Ever seen any of those?

If your teeth are knocked out can't you still bite with your gums...what about the back molars?

You're going to grind them to death? Works on deadly corn-cob attacks. Might work on the soft fruit too, but your stuck by the time you get to pointy sticks.

**Mr Punch** · 03-14-2009, 01:42 AM

Wait!...

The ghost of Yip Man just channelled the spirits of the Boxer Rebels: they said to look at a couple of threads from 1996 and channel them back their realism.

Where the hell did this dumb-ass thread come from? I dunno, turn my back for five minutes and everyone's gone all retro...

**lkfmdc** · 03-14-2009, 07:24 AM

An if they go to the ground they can tweak their techniques to get off the ground.

go test the theory, then get back to us

**Yoshiyahu** · 03-14-2009, 12:28 PM

Mr Punch and AdrianK

how do you escape the guard posistion to gain a dominant posistion?

how do you escape arm bar?

**anerlich** · 03-14-2009, 07:13 PM

how do you escape the guard posistion to gain a dominant posistion?

I don't know what a "posistion" is. This can't be a typo since you did it twice in one sentence.

You don't "escape" the guard. You sweep or submit from here. Or if striking is OK, kick the cr@p out of the guy.

how do you escape arm bar?

From on top or underneath? Normal or cutting armbar? how are the guy's legs positioned?

**sanjuro_ronin** · 03-17-2009, 05:40 AM

RE Bruce Lee:
After a nice altercation on the set with Gene "JUDO" LeBell, Bruce took up grappling.

**Siu Lum Fighter** · 04-03-2009, 11:13 AM

Here's one from the annals of my local Bay Area martial arts scene. Some time ago (back in the late seventies I believe) Peter Ralston, one of the many noteworthy fighters to have been trained by Wong Jack Man (another one being myself...well, I guess as soon as I decide to fight in MMA anyway), went around fighting in challenge matches at other Bay Area schools. I think 'cause it was mainly him doing the challenging he sort of got a bad rep for this at the time.

Anyway, there was some Wing Chun school in San Fran he went down to. He started sparring some of the students and it was soon apparent that he was a superior fighter than all of those guys. Ralston had pretty awesome Bill Wallace-type kicks and he kept nailing the Wing Chun guys from a relatively safe distance. He also had quick hands and was armed with some good all-around kung fu boxing skills.

The teacher finally told Peter he'd spar him, but that he couldn't use his kicks. I think just out of just sheer confidence or hubris Peter agreed. The fight was soon evened out with the Wing Chun sifu boxing Peter to a stand still. At one point, he got Peter to back up against the wall. Nobody I've talked to is really sure what happened at this point since, I believe the Wing Chun sifu's students were the only ones there to witness the match. The Wing Chun guy claims that he won and Peter claims that he won. From what I've heard, Peter tagged him with what would've been a devastating blow had he used full power. The Wing Chun sifu claims the same I believe. Both men were relatively unhurt so there's always been a lot of room for debate on this one. It could be that they struck each other around the same time. I'm not sure I'll ever find out for sure.

What I took away from the story was that someone who's a good kicker and a good boxer, will usually have a decisive advantage if both fighters have similar attributes. Wing Chun guys are known for their hands, but so are a lot of other martial artists. In terms of traditional MA's, I would pit a Hsing Yi, Tai Chi, Ba Gua or even a Mantis practitioner up against a Wing Chun fighter any day. But, once again, it ultimately comes down to the practitioner themselves. Speed and guts count for a lot.

**punchdrunk** · 04-03-2009, 11:31 AM

thats the problem with slap sparring or no contact fighting, who's to say who won. Might as well be having a chi blast battle!

**Yoshiyahu** · 04-16-2009, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by punchdrunk

thats the problem with slap sparring or no contact fighting, who's to say who won. Might as well be having a chi blast battle!

ha ha...have you guys ever seen Tai Chi guys spar? I would really love to see this!

I saw some garbage on youtube which was basically a chi blast battle where the guys threw imaginary invisible chi balls at each other from four feet away. An the one with the most chi won...it was terrible. Just awful. I was woundering if anyone seen footage of real Tai Chi being used in sparring,tournments, competionts or exhibition. I dont mean push hands either!

**Hardwork108** · 04-16-2009, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu

ha ha...have you guys ever seen Tai Chi guys spar? I would really love to see this!

I saw some garbage on youtube which was basically a chi blast battle where the guys threw imaginary invisible chi balls at each other from four feet away. An the one with the most chi won...it was terrible. Just awful. I was woundering if anyone seen footage of real Tai Chi being used in sparring,tournments, competionts or exhibition. I dont mean push hands either!

Hello Yoshiyahu,

Here is some tai chi wrestling sparring from the Chen village no less.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft_ZtX9wRdA

**Siu Lum Fighter** · 04-16-2009, 01:16 PM

There are San Shou fighters you use the same principles that they practice in Tai Chi. For those who know nothing about what Tai Chi is really supposed to be about, you can kick some serious ass with it. And I'm not talking about imaginary chi blasts or fighting slowly.

At EBM Kung Fu Academy in Oakland they use Tai Chi and those guys are no slouches (three or four national champs, best San Shou team in The Bay next to Cung Le's). I believe Max Chen, another San Shou fighter of note, says he's uses stuff he's learned in Tai Chi in the ring.

My former sifu, Wong Jack Man, used Tai Chi to throw some BIG guys around like they were stuffed animals. Don't underestimate the power of the Grand Ultimate Fist!

**t_niehoff** · 04-16-2009, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Hardwork108

Hello Yoshiyahu,

Here is some tai chi wrestling sparring from the Chen village no less.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft_ZtX9wRdA

Here's the Standard Bearer of Chen, no less:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pip97t50XbE

**Hardwork108** · 04-16-2009, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by t_niehoff

Here's the Standard Bearer of Chen, no less:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pip97t50XbE

It just goes to show that one can always meet someone superior.

Thank you. Very interesting, never the less.

**Yoshiyahu** · 04-16-2009, 09:02 PM

How would the Tai Chi guy use that against a Striker like Wing Chun or Muay Thai...would it only be effective against a grappler?

I see takedowns and throws. But basic self defense against kicks and punches?

What would happen against an opponent head hunting for their face?

**Edmund** · 04-16-2009, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu

How would the Tai Chi guy use that against a Striker like Wing Chun or Muay Thai...would it only be effective against a grappler?

I see takedowns and throws. But basic self defense against kicks and punches?

What would happen against an opponent head hunting for their face?

They can clinch and throw. Very effective against a standup fighter.

More taiji wrestling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAicu...eature=related

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