Gene's coverage of the CA Sanshou/San Da situation

[GeneChing]

I moved a lot of threads off our Tiger Claw’s KungFuMagazine.com Championship & Shark City Nationals to this one because that was getting distracting. It makes for a slightly uneven archival read now, but if tangential threads bother you, wtf are you doing reading a web forum.

[Shaolindynasty]

San shou is illegal in san jose? I think someone forgot to tell cung le

[GeneChing]

It's not illegal to practice sanshou. It's illegal to hold sanshou competitions. The California State Athletic Commission banned both professional and amateur sanshou and muay thai kickboxing events. Muay thai has regained approval, but sanshou is still banned. I discuss this in our new issue, the March April 2009, which just hit the newsstands.

[Shaolindynasty]

It's kinda goofy that sanshou and muay thai aren't legal yet they have mma fights, what's up with that? Is there some politic involved here

[xcakid]

It's kinda goofy that sanshou and muay thai aren't legal yet they have mma fights, what's up with that? Is there some politic involved here

Naaaahhhhh, not CA. That bastion of leftist liberal feel good laws that don't makes sense. Surely you jest.

[Hardwork108]

It's kinda goofy that sanshou and muay thai aren't legal yet they have mma fights, what's up with that? Is there some politic involved here

Well something is fishy for sure.

[GeneChing]

They rallied and were legalized. The article I mentioned above is about Female Fury, which was a Muay Thai match. I don't see any movement from the Sanshou circles here to get the ban lifted. It would take some legal fees to put up that fight and nobody has the cash. It's a shame really.

[GLW]

Right you are about there needing to be some legal money behind the push if Sanshou folks wanted to get legal. Seeing as how there have been several names who took the approach that if they couldn't run Sanshou they would "run it" into the ground, there is really no one who is recognized as a leader there that would be willing or able to put up such funds. (Cung Le is a pro now and not a Sanshou person per se any longer).

More and more states are doing this. In Texas, it is not exactly illegal but it does require folks to be properly licensed. Here, it is more a matter of separating the fighters and promoter from fees instead of the public safety idea. In California, they have always paid just a bit more than lip service to that old public safety idea....it is not JUST about the money.

However, if point sparring is allowed, continuous sparring with light contact would probably be legal as well. Of course, the contact aspect has to be downplayed...but if anyone reading this has ever competed in point sparring and NEVER had contact, give that man a CEEGAR...

The distinction between those who get hit and those who do not is widening.... and you got to wonder how much of a hand the Boxing folks wanting to protect their rice bowl had to do with this.

[GeneChing]

Cung's 2007 Art of War went sour with the USAWKF Team trial situation. He spoke about in our 2008 July/August cover story Cung Le Brings Sanshou into the Cage. Given how the sanshou went for America in 2008, well, hopefully you all read Beijing in their own words: American Athletes Reflect on the Wushu Tournament Beijing By Elly Duchamp in our 2009 January/February Shaolin Special.

BTW, our latest issue, the 2009 March/April Wudang Special, is on the newsstands. I have two articles that grapple with the state of sanshou in this issue: Female Fury, which was mentioned above, and Art of War VII, which is about the US Open International Martial Arts Championship XII. I also have an article about the state of kickboxing in China titled Wulin Feng: USA Versus China. I'm working on another addressing that topic right now for our next issue, and have two pieces on sanshou in there already. That issue will drop on 4/7/2009, so stay tuned.

Meanwhile, who's coming to our tournament?

[GeneChing]

I'm using lkfmdc's Gene's coverage of the CA Sanshou/San Da situation thread to ttt this one. We can take up discussion of the state of sanshou in the state of CA there.

[lkfmdc]

What killed San Shou/San Da in the US? It's an interesting question, I can give you a quick summary of some of the issues

Ironically, san shou/san da (let's just say sanshou for now) was first made illegal in NY. The law that made MMA illegal was used to close down pretty much all martial arts events here for almost 2 years.

The two most progressive hubs for Sanshou were NY and San Jose (Cung Le obviously). At the time both NY and San Jose were pushing both amateur sanshou tournaments and starting pro leagues. We both figured it was going to take 3 to 5 years to get pro going.

After doing my third pro event, I found out sanshou was illegal. It took us two years just to get amateur approved, pro is STILL ILLEGAL

The NY commission then hammered us again by closing many venues to us because of illegal MMA fights, ie close down anyplace that can do a martial art event so no one can do an illegal one

IN San Jose, Cung still represented hope to all of us. But it seemed that just as we were pushing the sport forward, those who had once controlled the sport tried to sabatoge us. IE if they couldn't be total dictators and control everything, they'd rather destroy it

I'm not naming any names of course (shawn liu and anthony goh)

Three years in a row the old powers tried to schedule something to conflict with Cung's event. I know it discouraged and tired out all of us, the entire community. Then the legal ban hit in CA.

[Exadon]

I'm not naming any names of course .

I knew where this thread was going to hit this point...at some point or another haha...
ahh

[lkfmdc]

I knew where this thread was going to hit this point...at some point or another haha...
ahh

I hope you know not to take it too personally

I already told you I like him personally and he's a great teacher, I just don't like his politics

[lkfmdc]

Gene, you really should do a history of San Shou in the US, it's fascinating and has as much politics as anything! It might even be "controversial"

[Exadon]

I hope you know not to take it too personally

I already told you I like him personally and he's a great teacher, I just don't like his politics

haha nooo I don't take much of anything personally, and I know where you stand. I just knew that is where this thread was going to go. and thought it was funny that I was right.

p.s. If it makes you feel better, you can buy me a ticket to CA for the tourny (I live on the East side)