Itinerant practitioner
When teaching, how many of you wait for the student to make the discovery and how many just hand it over?
Let me tell you something. the better lesson learned will be the one that the student works for, struggles with and has difficulty with.
If you put the student on your shoulders and carry him down the path, he will learn nothing.
Some things have more value when you withold them from others.
Just saying....
Kung Fu is good for you.
GM of Hadaka Korosu
Getting punched in the nose will teach you how to block better than 1000 blocking drills.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
har har har
so you're asking how many teachers are selfish? if teachers handed everything over right away, they wouldn't be able to make as much money dishing out the small crumbs.Originally Posted by David Jamieson
yes, because it will keep your ego satisfied knowing that you are still superiour and selfish in your knowledge.Let me tell you something. the better lesson learned will be the one that the student works for, struggles with and has difficulty with.
true, but he wouldn't be a student then, just a monkey on your back.If you put the student on your shoulders and carry him down the path, he will learn nothing.
yeah... your status quo in the martial arts world.Some things have more value when you withold them from others.
me too.Just saying....
GM of Hadaka Korosu
You tend to be very narrow minded at times, don't you?
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Itinerant practitioner
lol. bitter much?
Kung Fu is good for you.
Registered User
okay then Uki,
I suppose then, that every elementary teacher in the world is only worried about keeping their superiority over their students and mainting their status quo in the educational world because they don't just give the answers to each question on tests before they give the questions.
You are just being a curmudgeon because somewhere down the line David irked you. Be reasonable.
GM of Hadaka Korosu
We crawl before we walk, walk before we run, run before we jump and jump before we sashay !
Nature rules.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Itinerant practitioner
Uki's anger and contrariness stance are irrelevant, but he's entitled to drop his loads wherever he likes so long as the forum mgmt allows him to and so far, they are ok with him and so be it.
Getting back to the question, anyone experience students who actually get worse the more generous you are with them and does anyone have students who really excel with the material because they are allowed to discover a lot of aspects on their own in regards to it?
I'm not talking about leaving a student floating, I'm talking about putting them between a rock and a hard place and seeing if they use the tools they've been given to prevail.
Who teaches like this and why? Do you agree or disagree that the best lessons are the ones that are hardest won?
Or are you of the opinion that students should just have immediate access to information even without the guarantee that they understand through active demonstration based on personal discovery of the knowledge you gave them a key to?
Kung Fu is good for you.
GM of Hadaka Korosu
The best students are the ones that reach their goal and can say " I did this on my own".
They also have the best teachers.
I've been blessed and cursed to have a few teachers and coaches in my time, all with different teaching strategies and y far the best have always been the type that teaches but makes you feel you got there on your own.
The push you physically, to far beyond your concieved boundries, but never "hold you down" with THEIR version of the system.
The give you everything you need to find the answer yourself.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Heads or Tails?
DJ - I agree 100% completely with this. There was a situation where the teacher told a student repeatedly to bend his toes forward and aim with the shin for the roundhouse kick, and the student just would not take the time to correct this - until he broke his toes.
The methodology that I've experienced and pass on to my students is to give a certain core foundation with some techniques, and then "play" with them. After some playing, here are some new techniques/concepts. Go play.
I like this terminology of "play" - it's used in BJJ AND it's used in Kung-Fu. Here's some stuff, now go play with your friends with them lol.
The 10 Elements of Choy Lay Fut:
Kum, Na, Gwa, Sau, Chop, Pow, Kup, Biu, Ding, Jong
The 13 Principles of Taijiquan:
Ward Off, Roll Back, Press, Push, Pluck, Elbow, Shoulder, Split, Forward, Back, Left, Right, Central Equilibrium
And it doesn't hurt to practice stuff from:
Mounts, Guards, and Side Mounts!
Austin Kung-Fu Academy
Registered User
a lot depends on the WHAT of the discovery. Things like how to move and align correctly in a Taijiquan form I will usually give fore "Free" - mainly because many of those things, if done incorrectly, lead to bad balance that I must correct later...or even worse, knee or low back injury and pain.
But other things, I will explain if asked, show in progressive approximations (simplified to adding more complex concepts later)...and have found that even then, not everyone gets it. So, it really does work out most times that until the student is ready for the idea, they will not come close to grasping it anyway....so I don't worry about it much.
Heads or Tails?
Uki-
Actually, since most people take up their MA training as a recreational practice, a lot of them would rather be told what to do, so that they don't have to do much thinking.
So many teachers feed into this, and give tons of techniques and forms, to keep the student "feeling" like he is learning more. The giving of more and more material is actually the money-maker for the business.
Put another way - many students drop out when you have them spar.
The 10 Elements of Choy Lay Fut:
Kum, Na, Gwa, Sau, Chop, Pow, Kup, Biu, Ding, Jong
The 13 Principles of Taijiquan:
Ward Off, Roll Back, Press, Push, Pluck, Elbow, Shoulder, Split, Forward, Back, Left, Right, Central Equilibrium
And it doesn't hurt to practice stuff from:
Mounts, Guards, and Side Mounts!
Austin Kung-Fu Academy
Loud City
1. Explain the technique
2. Demonstrate the technique
3. Walk them through doing the technique
4. Make them drill the technique with a partner
5. Allow them to adjust the technique during free play
He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman
Itinerant practitioner
point 5 is the important part because it is demonstrative of understanding.
points 1 through 4 are a seemingly sound method of transmitting the material you want to transmit.
how do you help them with point 5?
Kung Fu is good for you.
Heads or Tails?
play lightly first, and then progressively increase intensity/resistance?
The 10 Elements of Choy Lay Fut:
Kum, Na, Gwa, Sau, Chop, Pow, Kup, Biu, Ding, Jong
The 13 Principles of Taijiquan:
Ward Off, Roll Back, Press, Push, Pluck, Elbow, Shoulder, Split, Forward, Back, Left, Right, Central Equilibrium
And it doesn't hurt to practice stuff from:
Mounts, Guards, and Side Mounts!
Austin Kung-Fu Academy
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