OT: does obama bring change?

[uki]

most everyone believes obama is here to change america, end global warming, and bring peace and prosperity to the whole world!!! lets see for ourselves and make our own minds up... some examples of the change we can believe in.

torture flights... http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/O...ow/4067338.cms

http://obamabarack.blogspot.com/2009...e-flights.html

civilian labor program... http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r210_35.pdf

an added twist... http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...?bill=h111-645

yet wait... http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...7662-858254656 aren't these the same folks that own a private prison in texas?? http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/01/texas.prison.riot/ and http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_162932.html and yet it is not a co-incidence that obama and cheney are related... http://www.nypost.com/seven/10172007...ma__cheney.htm and http://www.simplydumb.com/2007/09/12...-bush-related/

now if all that isn't enough to ponder... perhaps it's the change of the declaration of independence? http://content.usatoday.com/communit.../01/61522608/1 and http://www.dailypaul.com/node/79552 now that would be any lawyers headache...

obama speaks out against wall street greed, but what about... http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa...stPop_Emailed7 got hypocrisy?

and what about the change in his cabinet? is it really change or is it simply recycling? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4578937.shtml alot of familiar faces i tell ya!!!

so there is a short snippet of what all this change we are to believe in.

[David Jamieson]

are you saying he should reverse 8 years in 2 weeks?

also, rendition flights don't always mete out as "torture".

Often it is a way of superseding the non-existence of extradition treaties in the case of known and wanted criminals.

do you have a problem with that? I only have a problem with it if severe errors are made, otherwise, round em up and who cares what happens to em.

the harder it is for criminals to operate the better.

also, much of that is op-ed stuff, policies that haven't been dealt with yet etc etc.

I think your expectations of the man are a bit high maybe?

[1bad65]

are you saying he should reverse 8 years in 2 weeks?

Obama himself set the high expectations.

Of course within days of being elected he suddenly lowered the bar.

Anyone want to bet that the national debt will be higher in 4 years than it was when Bush left office?

[Kymus]

Anyone want to bet that the national debt will be higher in 4 years than it was when Bush left office?

If Obama gets the blank check he's basically asking for, I am not sure as to how the debt won't be larger than Bush's.

Unless I'm seriously missing something... Obama wants to expand the size of the government (which = more $$), 8 Billion was it for the stimulus package?, still in Iraq for a while, "maybe Iran" (and I have no idea what's going on in Iran anyway. I know we started to go in there in the last 6 months but the media has been really silent about anything else), wants increased efforts in Afghanistan, we're already bombing Pakistan (not sure what the plan is there)...

Even if by some sort of amazing luck the stimulus package and tax cuts do exactly what Obama says they'll do, we're still supporting an over-bloated government (with more bloat on the way), giving out god knows how much in foreign aide, supporting possibly 4 wars; definitely 2, and to top it all off, we're borrowing a metric ton of money at the beginning of it all. Oh yeah, don't forget carbon taxing, either...

[1bad65]

If Obama gets the blank check he's basically asking for, I am not sure as to how the debt won't be larger than Bush's.

Unless I'm seriously missing something... Obama wants to expand the size of the government (which = more $$), 8 Billion was it for the stimulus package?,...

Exactly.

Remember, some people saw this coming BEFORE the election.

[1bad65]

...8 Billion was it for the stimulus package?,...

Are these things going to 'stimulate' the economy and create jobs?

$2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.

• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

• $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.

• $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).

• $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.

• $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.

• $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.

• $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.

• $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.

• $125 million for the Washington sewer system.

• $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.

• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.

• $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."

• $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.

• $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.

• $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.

• $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

• $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.

• $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.

• $500 million for state and local fire stations.

• $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.

• $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.

• $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.

• $412 million for CDC buildings and property.

• $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.

• $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.

• $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.

• $850 million for Amtrak.

• $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.

• $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.

• $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.

• $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.

I think my favorite is the tax break for Hollywood movie producers. That Obama is really standing up for the 'little guy'.

Where is that tax cut 95% of us were promised?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/...ies/index.html

[Kymus]

Are these things going to 'stimulate' the economy and create jobs?

No, but, I knew better than to expect anything from him or McCain. Continually we are presented with a lump of $hit and a lump of crap and sold the idea that they're critically different

$2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.

I wonder what happened to his ******* for ethanol. IMO, if you're gonna invest in alternative energy, make it "high tech" solar, wind, or water.

• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

Yep, that'll really help the economy out

• $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.

.....................how much do those things cost?

• $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).

I'm almost split on this.......... almost. Having some friends in the military, I can sympathize with the need for "new stuff" (for lack of a much better word), but considering the proposed purpose of the "stimulus" package... that's not necessary. I think a better place for that would be a military spending bill.

• $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.

Oh to he|| with that! Less than 1% of the cases they work on are terrorism related. It's an unnecessary organization and even if it were around prior to 9/11, it wouldn't have prevented it any. Further, I don't see how that will exactly help the economy...

• $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.

• $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.

Convert the current engines to run on bio-diesel. Next!

• $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.

That's fine and dandy, but uh, it's not helping to "stimulate" the economy and it's not something that should be considered until we are out of the current financial disaster.

• $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.

How about we get some more public trash cans here in NYC? I'm tired of being the only person that doesn't litter..

• $125 million for the Washington sewer system.

How about cleaning up the rust in my water?

• $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.

not necessary at the moment

• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.

waste

• $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."

:

• $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.

This isn't "stimulating" the economy any.... even if it is necessary

• $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.

Why?

• $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.

Nope.

• $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

Nope.

• $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.

• $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.

That's great and all but.... it's not stimulating anything.

• $500 million for state and local fire stations.

Why?

• $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.

See above

• $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.

Obama's idea thus far of "energy efficiency" so far (clean coal, ethanol) is lacking. I'm not buying it. Further, no "stimulus"

• $850 million for Amtrak.

For arguments sake, since most of this is waste, I'll just go along with it.

• $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.

My apt building was built in 1927. The landlord will supply me with lead-paint testing should I choose to have a kid here. Not great, but it'll work for now...

• $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.

waste

• $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.

"stimulus"

• $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.

Why?

• $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.

WOW! It's a job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But........... why just summer jobs??

• $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.

• $412 million for CDC buildings and property.

• $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.

• $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.

What about the mandatory community service Obama wants for college kids?

[Mas Judt]

You know at 800 billion, the government could just cut us all a check for $100,000 and be done with it. THAT would stimulate the economy. Until the 'bill' came due at least

[mawali]

uki said

most everyone believes obama is here to change america, end global warming, and bring peace and prosperity to the whole world!!! lets see for ourselves and make our own minds up... some examples of the change we can believe in.

I know of no one who can do this, not even Jesus!
That being said and if we see the wisdom of the Daodejing, Obama can only change himself, which he did, There are people who see hope (for a better America) and so they are swayed to try to initiate that same change.

The rest do not believe in Obama's vision (aka THE CRAP) and they prefer to go against it Obama's vision) meaning they want thinks to remain the same as in George Bush's version of America. The rest see nothing to change despite the stagflation, unemployment, and ancillary service suffering depression

One cane never change people! They must see the will and need to change and initiate it themselves. Global warming, is at best humorous, because regardles of what we think about it and look at the data, something is CHANGING. Snow in New Orleans, Louisiana and parts of the South, snowfall in S. Africa, snow in London, polar cpas melting! If that is not change (keep in mind Obama has nothing to do with this) then nothing is!!!!!!!!!!

Obama or anyone for that matter cannot change LAZY, FOOLISH or IGNORANT PEOPLE and THOS INCAPABLE OF LEARNING.

God Bless America (we need it)

[Mr Punch]

Obama himself set the high expectations.

Of course within days of being elected he suddenly lowered the bar.

What a very poor memory. Well before the election he was always repeating that he probably wouldn't be able to do much about the mess you're in for a while, probably the first four years.

I mean, I don't know if he's got any answers, but he still hasn't had a fair chance from the likes of you. And even if he's a tosser, the fact that he's in is already a change... Wasn't it you who came out with some quote about cycles and being apprehensive when everyone else is celebrating? Well, now everyone has gone back to being apprehensive as usual so you can start celebrating! If his policies don't work: great - you lot get what you want and it swings back to the far right. If his policies work: great, they work! So it's a win-win situation in the slightly longer run.

And in the short run we're all ****ed anyway, and there was nobody better suited to try and pull you out: not McCain, not that freak Ron Paul, not Clinton, not the other GOP circus types, not Gordon Brown and not the EU. Let's face it, like them or not, the GOP and possibly the whole electoral status quo needed and still need shaking up.

[Mr Punch]

Oh, and welcome back Uki, you nutjob you!

[uki]

Oh, and welcome back Uki, you nutjob you!

i never really left... i just lurk sometimes. you should follow lucas and david to my other forum for one heck of a ride... although david is not telling who he is at the moment it seems.

[GLW]

Now, I do not know where everything Obama is going to do will end up...but at least get your stories and timeline straight....and understand that a lot of things in the ship of state continue on until someone explicitly stops it...

for example, a KBR contract awarded 01/24/2009...and WHEN did Obama take office....and the news of the award was a SATURDAY...that is when many in DC slip things by so it won't make the news.... but halting a contract on day 3 of his term may not be realistic.

The rendition flights...too soon to tell..but the work details..the document is dated 2005.

The prisons...well, unless it is a FEDERAL prison, there is not much a president can do about it...the real power lies with the Judicial branch to say that such things are not allowed.

Granted, there are a lot of things no one cares for now...but the first thing about finding yourself in a hole is to stop digging. Seems that many of the things done in the last 10 days have been aimed at doing that...and also aimed at coming up with a plan for something that previous actions have either caused or had no positive impact upon.

The complaint about retreads...well, if you go with pristine people, you get no baggage...AND NO EXPERIENCE in how to navigate DC and government.

The issue that is amazing is just how many people have major tax problems. I can be pretty sure that this issue is on BOTH sides of the aisle - Democrat and Republican.

Now I can see a big part of it being greedy and not wanting to pay any more in taxes than they have to....and dragging it out forever.

But I can also see a tax code that is so complicated that it takes a full vetting by tons of journalists and investigators to uncover things.

Sounds like a round of ethics an honesty for everyone accompanied by a simplification of the tax code would be in order...but what is NOT going to happen....

[uki]

and lets have it for some more change thats in the wind...

obama wants less secrey... http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/2009/01/a_new_era.html yet what about obamas new clinton(remember change folks) era attorney general? http://www.nowpublic.com/world/inter...eric-holder-30 and http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10110922-38.html

interesting to say the least... does anyone else have some change they know of?

[David Jamieson]

seriously, you live in America. it runs on a huge bureaucracy and has a huge population.

are your really so naive as to expect large sweeping changes into happy smurf land in 2 weeks?

really?

you got more hope than Obama!