Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[diego]

At least you admit there is bad. Simon seems to think socialism is paradise. You do admit you would not want to live somewhere with no elections or live on the rations, media blackouts, political prisons, that the average Cuban has to deal with, correct?



I travel. I just cannot in good conscience travel to any dictatorship. To me that is condoning it. FYI, I'm not judging you, just stating how I look at it.

don't come to vancouver 1bad we have durnken natives and gasp on thier reserves many bodies are hidden...don't come to stanley park.

[SimonM]

Simon seems to think socialism is paradise.

No. It just makes it easier to make things all black and white when messing with you 1badextremist. If you want my real opinions on the matter than actually read the post I replied to Bakxiboxer with.

A hint: reading is that thing you do with your eyes.

[1bad65]

don't come to vancouver 1bad we have durnken natives and gasp on thier reserves many bodies are hidden...don't come to stanley park.

ok????

The only way I would ever have went to Canada would have been to dodge the draft.

[SimonM]

Yeah, lots of people do that.

[bakxierboxer]

... you seem to have very carefully studied outsider arguments against classical marxism and communist theory without actually listening to what the modern marxists and democratic socialists are actually saying.

Thanks, but I actually have not made any such "study".
"What you see is what you get." meaning that's just my off-the-cuff "take" on "all things marxist".
Those previously mentioned latter-day incarnations of Marxists/Dsocs "will say anything" in furtherance of their goals and are no strangers to "The Big Lie" as well as having finely honed skills in Hegelian Dialectics. (more ways to lie)

It's safe to say that most of the people I know (and associate with in the real world) are leftists.

It's a very good thing for me that there are other types of folks.

And like it or not even small-l liberals are influenced, to a greater or lesser degree, by marxist thought. Hell, feminism is founded on an interpretation of classical marxism to gender issues.

See that?
Those are just 2 of the many instances of "The Big Lie".

But a few things: first off, read Das Capital. It's much more insightful than the communist manifesto. It's also the real foundation of marxist thought.

I'm not that interested, since the opinions I offer are, to me, "self-evident".
Chalk up two more of those "Big Lies".

Now that will give you a decent grounding into what academics are REALLY referring to when they make reference to Marxism.

Marx made use of Hegelian Dialectic.
Academe is the modern-day bastion of Marxism.
Academics are the new "moles" undercutting the future of free societies.

Second: remember that Marx was more than a century ago. We didn't stagnate.

That's what you think.
If something looks/talks/walks/acts like a duck... it's probably a Marxist.
The only difference between then and now is that "the left" has learned to soft-pedal the more objectionable of their demands/goals.
They most certainly haven't given up on them.

Heh! I'm not very sure of just who are the most prominent of today's Marxists, but Noam Chomsky, Bill Ayers and Ward Churchill are certainly on that list.

Modern democratic socialists don't necessarily believe that a dictatorship of the proletariat will automatically wither away into the worker's paradise.

"Withering away" is not the prophesied end act.... it's that violent overthrow of the "status quo".... which, in their theory, would by then be a Socialist Wonderland giving way to their Communist Worker's Paradise.

Rather modern democratic socialists believe that democracy is the most effective political system available to us. Now there are some disagreements between socialists as to what form of democracy is best. Most agree that a bipartisan republic is not. Sorry.

Uhm.... that's not the way I see it.
They're playing the old "if you can't beat'em, join 'em", moving into the Democratic Party, moving up through the very rank ranks, into "positions of leadership" and "subverting from within".... nothing more than a bit of a name change and some relatively low-key rhetoric as compared to days gone by.
It also helps their cause that they've pretty much learned how to stop frothing at the mouth.
(with but a few fairly prominent exceptions)

{snip!}

The next area that needs looking at is the role of government and the role of capitalism. Here is where our disagreements will be most significant seeing as you seem to espouse small government.

Rather definitely.

A socialist views the role of the government as being that of arbiter and, ultimately equalizer.

A position/function for which it is totally unsuited....
per my nominee for Greatest Canadian: Dr. Laurence J. Peter.

People should have equal opportunity to access education, health care, food, and shelter. This means that government intervention into these sectors may be (and often is) necessary. This intervention should only be conducted, not to stifle the prosperity of the people who operate within these sectors but rather to guarantee access.

I have no real problem with the idea of equal access/rights, since it is a part of the foundational ideology of our nation.
OTOH, government has already intervened in all of these fields (and many others) and screwed them up royally, leading to higher costs, thus placing them out of reach for many lower-income citizens.
Whoops! Lookit dat!
Maybe we've got to start subsidizing these things!
That costs $$$, which quite naturally has to come from "somewhere"/"someone", so the obvious course (to the government) is to tax the folks who can often just barely afford these goodies themselves....creating the starting point for a "vicious circle".
Right this "moment" we're getting a really good look at just what "government intervention" does so well..... the current market/credit/"crisis", which is courtesy of many of your friendly local CRA ("Community Reinvestment Act") Activists such as ACORN.

.... rich or poor you won't have to face any more or less risk of a waiting list for a doctor than anybody else.

And when "push comes to shove", those that can afford it cross the border to the US to avoid that possibly fatal wait.

The second important tenant of modern democratic socialists is the belief that Capitalist structures are NOT intrinsically democratic.

How'd we get onto "Squatter's Rights"?
(or did you mean to use the word "tenets"?)

Not so strangely, I don't see any indication in the term/derivatives of "capitalism" that actually says "democracy".... probably because the term is the name of an economic principle/paradigm/model.

The assumption that trade liberalization and the invasion of the capitalist financial system will naturally LEAD to freedom and democracy is one of the greatest fallacies of conservativism (the other two being the invisible hand of the market and trickle down theory).

Capitalism does not LEAD to political anything; free-market principles simply tend to flourish best in societies where the citizens are free to work their arses off in order to "get ahead".... with "self-interest" and "human nature" at their peak.

For an example of how that doesn't work let's look at capitalism's latest poster child: China. Not so much freedom there. Lots of capitalism there.

OTOH, "most of them" are far too busy doing business to be as oppressive as they were in the past.

And I know, I lived it, worked it and competed in it for 2.5 years.

Interesting time, eh?
You must have stuck out like a sore thumb.... and yet, here you are.... obviously not incarcerated or executed.

Assuming that capitalism =/= freedom means that those political actions that are largely based on attempting to provide for capitalists (such as, for example, financial deregulation [how did that work out for ya]....

Actually, it was the increased regulation of the rewritten CRA that is largely responsible for the current financial "problems".

and the establishment of multinational free trade agreements) are viewed with suspicion. Especially when those free trade agreements would personally benefit undemocratic thugs like the present president of Columbia.

I don't much care for them when they aren't truly reciprocal.

Oh yeah, and we don't believe that Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez are the two heads of the antichrist.

Nor do I....
I happen to think that they much more closely resemble a couple of crotch crickets ("Pediculosus Pubis" to those with more than a nodding acquaintance in the direction/vicinity of a diseased/infested female crotch)

[BoulderDawg]

Too Little Too Late Senator McCain...

I just saw this guy at some sort of town hall meeting trying to take back all the stuff he's been saying for the past two week.......Don't think so!

Paraphasing "Obama is a decent human being who you don't have to fear being president"

Trying to save your legacy senator?

[MasterKiller]

Alaska panel finds Palin abused power in firing

[Water Dragon]

I'm calling set up on this one. Now, Palin will step down and the real VP, who's been vetted and the real choice this whole time, will be announced. Pretty slick move by the GOP.

[BoulderDawg]

I'm calling set up on this one. Now, Palin will step down and the real VP, who's been vetted and the real choice this whole time, will be announced. Pretty slick move by the GOP.

No......If that happened at this stage of the game I'll be floored.

In baseball terminology it's the bottom of the eight and the visitors are just getting rocked. The score is a blowout. It's 9-0 and the bases are loaded. You used almost every pitcher you have except for a few guys you don't want to waste in this blowout. So, the guy on the mound simply has to take one for the team and pitch til the end.

This is the way it is. They won't tell you this but the Republicans have already thrown in the towel. They know they are going to get slaughtered and they are just waiting it out to regroup for next time.

McCain/Palin? They are taking one for the team here.

Really though, in hindsight, this is a Democratic year....The GOP could pick anyone for either slot on the ticket and it would still not make much of a difference.

[BoulderDawg]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/...owd/index.html

I just saw this on CNN and it's what I've been talking about and I think it's the main reason McCain had to step in and do something about it. Anyone can see this is really getting out of hand.

I did see the tape where McCain called Obama a good family man...I had no problem with the statement however in the context it was given I do have a problem. The lady asked it Obama was an "Arab".....In the same fashion someone would have asked if he was a N 50-60 years ago. The term "Arab" was taken as a negative by McCain. He should have answered: "People of Arab desent are fine decent people but no Sen Obama is not Arab nor is he a terrorist. He's a decent family man."

[1bad65]

The lady asked it Obama was an "Arab".....In the same fashion someone would have asked if he was a N 50-60 years ago.

Is there anyone who think is NOT a racist?

Dude, the guy's father was Muslim before become an atheist and he himself mentioned his 'Muslim faith'. His middle name is also Arabic as well.

[David Jamieson]

The name "Hussein." It is from the Semitic word, hasan, meaning
"good" or "handsome." Husayn is the diminutive, affectionate form.

Barack Obama's middle name is in honor of his grandfather, Hussein, a secular
resident of Nairobi. Americans may think of Saddam Hussein when they hear the
name, but that is like thinking of Stalin when you hear the name Joseph.

1bad, you sir are as ignorant as a summer day is long.
Your hate is misplaced and your intellect is held in question by some of the inane things you post in these political threads.

You should stick to taunting others from behind the shoulders of real men as is your modus operandi.

laughable is what you are and yet you perpetuate that as if it is some badge of honour.

weird is your moronic activity here.

[BoulderDawg]

Dude, the guy's father was Muslim before become an atheist and he himself mentioned his 'Muslim faith'. His middle name is also Arabic as well.

So? I cannot control my heritage or who my mother and father was. Why should this be a negative with Obama? I think he should be proud of both his mother and father and should say so in public.

The Arab people are no different than any other people here on earth. Yet McCain answered this lady's question as if being Arab was a negative. In truth, we all know what she meant however she did not indicate in her question that being Arab was equal to being a maddog brown skinned terrorist. All she said was that she thought he was Arab. It was McCain who presented the stereotype in his answer.

[The Willow Sword]

Obama is NOT an Arab and anyone who thinks that(and i use the term "think" loosely here) is about as dumb as a peice of cardboard. I admire McCain for putting that stupid lady in her place when she made that statement. Shows Integrity on McCains part. Just because someone has an arabic name doesnt make them a "Muslim". Its the same ole tune by the radical right to hand out a guilty by association judgement on Obama or anyone else for that matter.
and Second of all
The Middle name Hussein is an arabic name, true. However if you look at the meaning of the word and its usage in the arabic world it is a very secular name and a very common one as well(like smith is here) it means "handsome man" or "man of stature". The time for mud slinging in these campaigns is OVER,people. Time to get out there and vote. We have one more debate,then we vote. STFU IBAD65!! Stop p!ssing around on this forum and vote for what you think and feel is right.
The less you abuse your "right" to speak the better off the rest of us will be Ibad65.
My new slogan for this election is STFU and VOTE. plain and simple.

Peace,TWS

[1bad65]

1bad, you sir are as ignorant as a summer day is long.

So he did not mention his 'Muslim faith'? Am I wrong there?

You should stick to taunting others from behind the shoulders of real men as is your modus operandi.

What are you talking about? Look at my sig, idiot. It's common knowledge where I train, and I have posted video and pics of myself. I'm not hiding at all.

I have a competition record. Do you?