Sherlock Holmes

[Ultimatewingchun]

God, I hate this thread!

Yes, Downey has studied TWC from Eric Oram, who I know since he's 16 years old...but when I saw the youtube clip of Downey on Oprah Winfrey talking about his wing chun (and there was even a clip of him throwing a punch at Eric...and Eric going to town on it)...

I wanted to hide. Total Hollywood blah, blah, blah.

And furthermore, I am a HUGE FAN of the Sherlock Holmes series that was originally made by a corporation known as "Granada TV"...a series that aired on British televison about 4x per year over a 10 year period (apx. 1984-1994)...

starring JEREMY BRETT as Sherlock Holmes. (And it made its' way onto American television as well).

Absolutely fantastic stuff. I have a copy of all 41 episodes and have watched each of them countless times over the years (and it used to drive my wife nuts)...

Each of the 41 episodes were probably the most true depictions ever made - in terms of being true to the original Arthur Conan Doyle stories and dialogue. Most were an hour long, and some were even two hours long.

The 2 hour rendition of THE HOUND OF THE BASKERVILLES, for example, was just magnificent.

And now Hollywood is going to ruin this with Robert Downey, Jr. as Holmes !!!???

I'm so ashamed.

[TenTigers]

hey, lots of folks didn't think Michael Keaton would play a good Batman, thinking that he's Mr. Mom, and the guy from Gung-Ho. These people obviously have never seen him in Pacific Heights. He can be very dark, and sinister.
I think Downey is a good actor, and could probably pull it off, depending on the writer and director and choreographer. Bourne Identity was pretty cool, for a non-MAist. Blows away Keanu in Matrix.(barf)

[Vajramusti]

Basil Rathbone was great as Holmes in an early early movie version.
No high movie- tech stuff-just good acting.

joy chaudhuri

[rindge]

Joy truer words were never spoken. Basil Rathbone was fantastic in the old SH black and white films. I grew up on those and they drew me to the SH writings of Doyle. I have seen the previews of SH with Downey and they blow. To much FX...SH is not about FX it about acting and plot.

Victor any idea where I can get the movies you mentioned? The Hounds of Baskerville with Rathbone was fantastic and it would be interesting to see how the newer version compares.

Rindge

[Vajramusti]

Rathbone actually was a pretty good fencer. He often played the villain in many swashbuckling movies- sometimes against Errol Flynn as the hero-including Robin Hood.

joy chaudhuri

[Phil Redmond]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqjBM...aynext_from=PL

This movie was considered to be Hollywood's first MA fight scene. Some of you may not know this but many of James Cagney's fans were appalled that he kicked the guy during the fight. Some of you old timers might remember when kicking was considered dirty fighting.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Rindge,

Google "Granada Television"....and you'll see a listing for "Amazon.com/Sherlock Holmes, Granada Televison"....when you click that, you'll see how to buy them right there online.

[tigershorty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1czvD3aVk8Y

robert downey jr chain punches jack black in the balls at 2:36 into the clip. pretty funny.

[Ultimatewingchun]

just as I suspected. Arthur Conan Doyle would be turning over in his grave if he saw this trailor. This is NOT Sherlock Holmes. Jeremy Brett was incredible, even better than Basil Rathbone - who was very good himself.

But this stuff...Ouch!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfRKS...eature=related

[Liddel]

But this stuff...Ouch!!!

Just be happy its not a Michael 'all CGI no emotion' Bay production

DREW

[anerlich]

I too thought Basil Rathbone was great.

There was a recent miniseries which played here with Rupert Everett as Holmes ... I thought that wasn't bad, though it made a bit much of the drugtaking for my taste (though, hey, maybe RD Jr. could bring some verisimilitude there ... ).

Haven't seen the Jeremy Brett ones and am interested now.

[anerlich]

He looks like he's trying to be Johnny Depp in that trailer.

Sherlock Holmes is not about blockbuster action, but the use of observation, logic and reason to solve difficult crimes.

And the bedroom scene with the cuffs is so totally NOT Holmes. Part of the interest of the stories is his intriguing apparent lack of a sexual aspect to his personality, which some have later attributed to gayness.

[Ultimatewingchun]

If you're a big Sherlock Holmes fan, Andrew, and it sounds like you are...I highly recommend checking out the google info I posted about earlier.

The 41 stories that were made with Jeremy Brett as Holmes were remarkably close to the actual writings of Arthur Conan Doyle...(ie.- long paragraghs were taken and spoken word-for-word from the text quite, quite often, but all done extremely well).

I sometimes would read (or reread) a story by Doyle after watching an episode, because the acting and the period sets were so superb that I just wanted to get more of the story defined. That's when I realized just how true the script stayed to the original stories.

And Jeremy Brett's portrayal of Holmes - wow, brilliant! He was a very powerful actor, and a protege of Sir Lawrence Olivier. (Brett died young - he was 60 - of a heart attack around 1995, which is why the series came to an end).

And I'll tell you something else, in addition to Brett they also used lots of very accomplished and established (as well as up-and-coming) British actors/actresses.

In fact, the beautiful actress, Natasha Richardson, who just recently died as a result of that tragic skiiing accident (Liam Neeson's wife)...she made her movie-acting debut with a leading role in one of the episodes (THE COPPER BEECHES). She couldn't have been more than 21-22 at the time.

Really great stuff.

[Mr Punch]

...but when I saw the youtube clip of Downey on Oprah Winfrey talking about his wing chun (and there was even a clip of him throwing a punch at Eric...and Eric going to town on it)...

I wanted to hide. Total Hollywood blah, blah, blah.

**** me, what a surprise: a big Hollywood actor going on Oprah proving himself over rehab through the power of martial arts having his segment bigged up in a Hollywood stylee! Even seeing that somewhat embarrassing segment doesn't diminish the fact that I think it's great he's given himself a second chance (OK probably 10th or so) through martial arts, wing chun or whatever, and it makes him a somewhat positive role model and is good publicity for some of the more spiritual, less hardcore fighting elements of the martial arts.

But ribbing you aside Victor (it's just good fun, all right?! ) I'm in total agreement about the Brett Holmes being good stuff, Rathbone being excellent too, the Downey one being bullsh!t and I liked the Everett one too (the druggie aspect is too often underplayed so that was kind of refreshing).

BTW, as mentioned, Holmes could box, so the chun in the movie looks daft. However, although it was doubtless unintended by the film-makers, prizefighting in those days may have still resembled chun more than modern boxing: there would have still been remnants of vertical punching and much much less upper body movement. Just saying!

[Ultimatewingchun]

Good point about the vertical punching from the old time boxing stance, Mr. Punch. In fact, in the story/episode "THE SOLITARY CYCLIST" - Jeremy Brett as Holmes beats this guy up during a fight in a rural country tavern using the old style boxing - including one piece of very fancy footwork.

I almost fell out of my chair when I first saw it, as the footwork looked so much like the full side step we do in TWC, but from the front stance, the way a boxer would be standing. Broken rhythm and everything.

Btw, folks...I forgot to mention earlier that another (at that time) up-and-coming British actor who played a small role in the episode, "SHOSCOMBE OLD PLACE", was Jude Law. He also had to have been no older than his early twenties at the time, I would guess.

And now, in fact, in this travesty with Robert Downey,Jr. - Jude Law plays Doctor Watson.