Shaolin Temple Discipleship

[GeneChing]

Does anyone know what the process to become a modern-day Shaolin Monk would be?

There are literally thousands of kids that train in live-in schools near Shaolin. Some of them are inclined to pursue a monastic life at Shaolin. These kids go through a rigorous series of examinations, which narrow the field, akin to the traditional system of examination established by Confucian rule for centuries.

Keep in mind that there are two classes of monks at Shaolin: wuseng (martial monks) and wenseng (more of your classical Buddhist monk). I'm not sure how many wenseng there are, probably hundreds. That's an easier class since you don't have to take as many vows. Most of the monks that we know in the West are wenseng. There are less than 200 wenseng at last count.

Now, there are a few westerners that claim they have been ordained as a monk at Shaolin. They didn't go through this same process. The most prominent of them at this time is Yanfan in L.A. We ran a feature on him in our last Shaolin Special: The First American Branded at Shaolin Temple By Melissa Leon-Guerrero Do. He's also mentioned in our monk initiation thread here.

How is it done in China and what is the road to discipleship if you're studying in the U.S.?

You can be a disciple of any person, not just a monk or a martial arts master. For example, you might disciple under a master of tea ceremony or painting. The process is the same, with some slight variations in local/secular rituals. The key is to find the right master. If you just want to be a disciple, that's just like saying you want to be married. Get a mail order bride. I hear Russia is good for that. You'll find way too many resources about that here on our forum. Here's an old article of mine that addresses some of the basics of discipleship.

[David Jamieson]

. . . . . . .

[LFJ]

As far as I know, the Shaolin Temple is the only Buddhist Temple that emphasizes both Buddhist and martial traditions.

understand that in shaolin, martial arts is part of buddhist practice- used to push your chan experience further. they are not separate traditions. shaolin is about chan buddhist practice.

I plan to go Shaolin in China for at least a summer to see if the monastic life is for me.

honestly, if you are indeed sincerely interested in monastic life its a huge life choice you cant take so lightly. and you need not go to china for it. but understand its not something you can go and try out and if you dont like it, leave. monasticism doesnt work like that.

and if you're only interested in monasticism if there is gongfu involved, i think you should reconsider the reason you want to leave home. whether its serious buddhist commitment or what.

if you are sincerely interested in monastic life i suggest you take a little more time to look into what such a major life choice entails. if you'd like to pm me i can give you more details and places to look.

National Geographic did a documentary where there were two classes of students: the students who only studied kung fu, and those who had become full monks. Both were skilled in the physical aspects of the art.

if we're talking about monasticism, this is incorrect. it is imperative that all monastics study buddhism. even those who train in martial arts in shaolin, they first must learn buddhism. then they may start training martial arts while studying buddhism at the same time, which includes daily buddhist chanting services, chores and the like.

there is no class of monastics that only study martial arts. those are modern performance groups and have no monastic experience whatsoever.

also, i dont know what mkriii is talking about. perhaps some type of martial arts school. but that is not how monasticism works at all.

be clear on it especially before you waste your money going to china for something like that!

peace!

[Chan Quan]

Thank *all* of you for your perceptive replies.

It's a big decision and not one I want to take lightly.

Gene, thank you for all of the pointers and resources. I will study them carefully before I decide on a course of action.

[LFJ]

Keep in mind that there are two classes of monks at Shaolin: wuseng (martial monks) and wenseng (more of your classical Buddhist monk). I'm not sure how many wenseng there are, probably hundreds. That's an easier class since you don't have to take as many vows. Most of the monks that we know in the West are wenseng. There are less than 200 wenseng at last count.

i think you mean "wuseng"- the warrior monks class. they only take five lay precepts (10 while in the monastery) and have spread out in the west to spread chan through the vehicle of martial arts.

whereas "wenseng"- scholarly monks- is just another name for "heshang", or "bhikshu"- that is a fully ordained monk. not an easier class by any means. thats where the real work is done. i dont know of any from shaolin that have spread west. perhaps some in that handful out in california?

[GeneChing]

That was my bad typo. Still getting over a bout of summer flu.

It should read:
"I'm not sure how many wuseng there are, probably hundreds. That's an easier class since you don't have to take as many vows. Most of the monks that we know in the West are wuseng. There are less than 200 wenseng at last count."

I'm nowhere without proofreaders.

[brothernumber9]

but understand its not something you can go and try out and if you dont like it, leave. monasticism doesnt work like that.

peace!

perhaps I don't know what monasticism means, and considering the context, I assume you are speaking of only, or mainly chan buddhism. In countries, like Cambodia, Thailand, Laos, it is fairly common for many men to have been monks at one time in their life, usually when they are young, and then to later become a regular joe in the sangha. Part of this stems from socio-economic conditions, mainly poverty and post war conditions from the seventies and eighties. But there are also some who explore it as a matter of choice as a possible avenue in their life, and then later discern that it is not for them.

[mkriii]

Oh, I see. You sure made it sound as if you had been there personally.
.............

No but my teacher and 8 classmates went. My teacher liven in China for 8 years. I've heard in detail what its like there. Not just from him but classmates as well.

[unkokusai]

No but my teacher and 8 classmates went. My teacher liven in China for 8 years. I've heard in detail what its like there. Not just from him but classmates as well.

So it wasn't your intention to make it seem as if you had gone yourself?

[mkriii]

So it wasn't your intention to make it seem as if you had gone yourself?

No, it wasn't. If I wanted to make people think I went I would not have just posted that I haven't been there and that it was my teacher and 8 classmates that went. I could have lied and said yes I have been there, now couldn't have I?

[mkriii]

Unk....why is it that you seem to have this hostility towards me? You question every post that I make. Do you have an obsession with me or something?

[LFJ]

perhaps I don't know what monasticism means, and considering the context, I assume you are speaking of only, or mainly chan buddhism. In countries, like Cambodia, Thailand, Laos, it is fairly common for many men to have been monks at one time in their life, usually when they are young, and then to later become a regular joe in the sangha. Part of this stems from socio-economic conditions, mainly poverty and post war conditions from the seventies and eighties. But there are also some who explore it as a matter of choice as a possible avenue in their life, and then later discern that it is not for them.

when young men go through that phase in theravada countries it is not full ordination. it is only novice ordination.

after their time as a novice they can choose to take full ordination or return to lay life.

what i'm talking about is full ordination. it is not something you can just go and try out for a little while and then leave. in any tradition.

first of all, its many times very difficult to become a monk because the masters have to be clear on your intentions (as do you). because this choice is "leaving home". you dont get to go back home and see your family and old girlfriends every thanksgiving holiday.

it takes quite some time through novice training and such before you can be considered for full ordination. many times in china you need buddhist university education.

and shaolin is of course much much different than any other buddhist monastery. thats why i'd question the intention of someone who wants to "become a monk" at shaolin temple and nowhere else if gongfu isnt a part of it.

if "leaving home" and committing one's life to the strict study and practice of the buddha's teachings in a monastery, there are much more practical and reasonable places to go. you dont even have to go to china for that anymore.

[unkokusai]

No, it wasn't.

Ok, just checking 'cause the way you described in great detail even what he would be eating everyday made me wonder.

[unkokusai]

Unk....why is it that you seem to have this hostility towards me?

I'm not fond of racists or poseurs.




But anyway, sorry to the others who are trying to have a real discussion.

[GeneChing]

LFJ is right. Vows are meant to be taken seriously and for a lifetime. Full monastic vows are a considerable undertaking.

But back OT, Chan Quan, your question is almost like asking "How do I get married?" before ever kissing a girl. Or a boy. Not sure what sex you are. Not sure that matters anymore in many states. But I digress. Generally, you don't start with the big full-on vows first. I only took layman vows. I took two sets, one as a Zen practitioner and another as a Shaolin disciple. That's plenty for me. I have no intention of becoming a monk. There was a time when I considered it, and I've actually lived at a couple temples and done some work studies, but I realized that it really wasn't my path. So take a few steps first, baby steps if you will, before tackling the big ones, just in case it's not where you want to go. You have to start small anyway.

Find a Buddhist temple. Start a practice there. Get some tutelage.

Being a monk is not what most people think it is.