So which styles really can be traced to the Shaolin Temple?

[kal]

When I was a kid I swallowed without questioning the story that ALL martial arts ALL over the world originated at Shaolin!

Looking back at it with some common sense, this is clearly ridiculous. It's just as ridiculous to believe that all Chinese styles came from Shaolin, given how utterly huge the country is.

So whic of the arts around today can reasonably be traced back to THE Shaolin Temple?

Am I correct in thinking that we can rule out the southern styles like Hung Gar, White Crane and Wing Chun.

On the other hand, how about 7 Star Praying Mantis? Is there a chance that one actually does come from Shaolin?

What about Northern Long Fist? Any genuine connection?

[LFJ]

i'd just say that the saying "all martial arts of the world come from shaolin" is misunderstood. what i take it to mean is the influence of shaolin touching almost every style in some way. even if certain styles were developed outside of shaolin and never were taught or practiced on temple grounds, many times they do have connections to shaolin.

i wouldnt rule out any of those southern styles as having no connection. not at all. for example, with current research on wingcheunkyun it appears to have actually come from shaolin. according to a story i dont know whether or not has been confirmed.

but a certain family stepped forward and told their story to the wingcheunkyun research museum which goes back further than the girl named "wing cheun" that everyone else's lineage stops with, saying actually "wing cheun" as a female's name was only a way to hide the roots of the style. the rest of the story is quite interesting....

as for styles like baksiulam (beishaolin- northern shaolin) we've discussed it on this site before. although it was never taught or practiced on shaolin temple grounds it is most likely connected to the yuan dynasty era shaolin jingang (vajra) system.

so, taking the saying in this way it makes sense to say many (if not all) styles at some point have crossed with shaolin.

[Royal Dragon]

Well, that is tough. many styles were developed at Shaolin, like Louhan Tai tzu Quan, Maybe the Xiao Hong and Cannon Fist sets, but many styles were brought in by outsiders as well. I think Northern Mantis is one of those brought in.

Shaolin is more of a martial arts university. It has both collected, and absorbed material in addition to developing it out right.

Many styles got tied with Shaolin AFTER the fact too. Like Cha Fist. It's a Northern Long Fist, but of Moslem development. However there are a number of Moslem likes that got taught side by side with Shaolin MA's centuries ago, especially in Shandong province (not actually in the temple), and are called Shaolin today, when they are really more of a hybred of the two.

[SDJerry]

When I was a kid I swallowed without questioning the story that ALL martial arts ALL over the world originated at Shaolin!

Looking back at it with some common sense, this is clearly ridiculous. It's just as ridiculous to believe that all Chinese styles came from Shaolin, given how utterly huge the country is.

So whic of the arts around today can reasonably be traced back to THE Shaolin Temple?

Am I correct in thinking that we can rule out the southern styles like Hung Gar, White Crane and Wing Chun.

On the other hand, how about 7 Star Praying Mantis? Is there a chance that one actually does come from Shaolin?

What about Northern Long Fist? Any genuine connection?

Why would you rule out hung gar??? From my understanding, and of course I could always be wrong, it is one of the oldest styles. Gung Gee Fook Fu came straight from the temple. The hands in Gung Gee are in sets all throughout the system so the principles are there.

[Mulong]

When it comes to so called Shaolin nanquan (Young Forest southern fist) it is truly a Pandora Box, because the southern temple and the five elders can’t be historically verified.

[peace&love]

As a Hung Gar practitioner, I always believed up until recently that this style came directly from the temple. Recently, I read that Hung Gar was actually a family style that was older than the temple itself. A practitioner of this style spent some time at the temple and techniques were shared. The monks later developed this further and it went on to be developed from there. As time went on Hung Gar itself added a bit to its system. For example, they too some Lau Gar family sets and added so those techniques would not be lost with time. It is my understanding that the Shaolin Temple did much of this themselves. I guess one point of view is that the monks were sort of technique librarians to a certain degree. I'm sorry I cannot reference were I got the info on the Hung Gar family style right now. I read it in this past year, but I cannot remember what my source is. I apologize. I am in the process of trying to organize magazine articles and books so this won't happen as often in the future.
My point of view is that all martial arts as we know them today (kung fu, karate, TKD, Kempo, BJJ) developed out of Shaolin, but many were developed elsewhere from battle and elsewhere. For example, ancient Greeks and Romans had fighting techniques very similar to those found in Shaolin. Also, many Yoga postures and Hindu religious postures are found in Shaolin as well. Those from India passed through Shaolin, but I'm not sure there is a direct connection with Greek and Roman battle techniques. It is very hard to say because unfortunately, it seems archaeologists are not so concerned with martial arts as it is with other topics.

[David Jamieson]

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=49464

the book reveals some things.

it is relevant to know that there was a huge upsurge at the turn of the 20th century and just a little before that as well.

a lot was going on right up to the last emperor and the ultimate end of the Ming rebellion...seeing as it lacked an enemy to rebel against. During the preceding 300 years, martial arts reached pinnacles unseen, there was also a lot of supporting literature as well apparently, some of it is still available.

But during that time period, a lot was going on in Shaolin as in many other places.

[sanjuro_ronin]

As with most things MA related, I doubt that it is a case of either/or.
Many systems were developed in Shaolin, many other modified and yet many other just passed through.

[Siu Lum Fighter]

My Sifu and my Si Hing's would tell me that Bak Siu Lum (Bei Shaolin), or Northern Shaolin gung fu originated on temple grounds. It was called "Northern Shaolin Style" all the way back before the turn of the 19th century by people in the north so I'd say it's a strong contender. Of course, this has been debated ad naseum in these two threads and others:
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=47251
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=46255
But really, most if not all of the styles that have the Shaolin name attached to them, including Hung Gar, have techniques that were either created there or practiced there.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Praying Mantis is not from Shaolin (buddhist), it is from Lao Shan Temple (taoist) in Shandong.

It contains shaolin influences, but that is only because it is an eclectic system.
Shaolin was being destroyed by the Manchurians in the same time period that Praying Mantis was founded.

Reply]
Can you elaborate on that a bit?

Also, there are some signs that Wang Lan(sp?) was from Sung dynasty and had a hand in creating Shaolin Long Fist. Have you heard this?

[Royal Dragon]

Why wouldn't sophisticated martial arts exist during warring states? I would think that would be the driving force of thier creation if anything.