Shaolin Monk

[GODsWarrior]

Is it possible to become a Shaolin Monk and not be Buddhist? Will they even train with you personally if you are not Buddhist?

[GeneChing]

They'll train you regardless of your religious beliefs, but to become a monk, you must take Buddhist vows.

[GODsWarrior]

Can you give me an example of some of their vows?

[GeneChing]

....but if you google "Buddhist vows" you'll get 232,000 hits. I'm sure you'll find the answer there.

[cjurakpt]

Can you give me an example of some of their vows?

for a lay person, becoming a Buddhist is typically referred to as "taking refuge", meaning that one is in essence asking to come in out of the storm that is the world of phenomena in order to cultivate one's capacity for awakening; one therefore takes refuge in the "Three Treasures / Jewels"; the Buddha (the Awakened One or the Tagathata - the "One Who Sees Things Such as They Are"), the Dharma (the precepts governing the practice of Buddhism) and the Sangha (the body of fellow practitioners);

I don't recall taking any other particular "vows" when i took refuge, although it was a Chinese ceremony done at the end of a 7 day monastic Ch'an retreat, so the details are a bit fuzzy, LOL

oh, there is a second "level" of vows, I believe, called the Bohdisatva vows, where one vows to delay one's own final enlightenment and not enter Nirvanna until every other sentient being has reached enlightenment first

you should also be able to Goggle "buddhist vows' and come up with something

on the flip side, I have some very interesting texts describing something like 999 Buddhist he1ls, including one where it rains nails constantly and others where one rides around on flaming metal donkeys (???); the poin of Buddhist he1ls is that you don't live in one for eternity, but in fact are born into one and can be killed off quite readily, only to reincarnate in another one - crazy stuff!

[GODsWarrior]

for a lay person, becoming a Buddhist is typically referred to as "taking refuge", meaning that one is in essence asking to come in out of the storm that is the world of phenomena in order to cultivate one's capacity for awakening; one therefore takes refuge in the "Three Treasures / Jewels"; the Buddha (the Awakened One or the Tagathata - the "One Who Sees Things Such as They Are"), the Dharma (the precepts governing the practice of Buddhism) and the Sangha (the body of fellow practitioners);

I don't recall taking any other particular "vows" when i took refuge, although it was a Chinese ceremony done at the end of a 7 day monastic Ch'an retreat, so the details are a bit fuzzy, LOL

oh, there is a second "level" of vows, I believe, called the Bohdisatva vows, where one vows to delay one's own final enlightenment and not enter Nirvanna until every other sentient being has reached enlightenment first

you should also be able to Goggle "buddhist vows' and come up with something

on the flip side, I have some very interesting texts describing something like 999 Buddhist he1ls, including one where it rains nails constantly and others where one rides around on flaming metal donkeys (???); the poin of Buddhist he1ls is that you don't live in one for eternity, but in fact are born into one and can be killed off quite readily, only to reincarnate in another one - crazy stuff!

Wow, so would taking these vows be going against my religion? If not I am growing more interested, if it means going against my religion this idea will be annihilated. I can only appreciate the help I receive. thanks to the both of you so far. GOD Bless

[MasterKiller]

You won't learn real kung fu from most of the monks, anyway. Find a good kung fu school in your area an just apply yourself.

[Leto]

The goal of taking Buddhist vows is not to learn shaolin kung fu. In fact, it's the other way around. If you just want to learn how to fight, go find an MMA gym.
Forget about Shaolin monks and their kung fu, vows and Buddhism until you are prepared to let go of all your old habits, including religion.

[cjurakpt]

Wow, so would taking these vows be going against my religion?

well, if tolerance of others, compassion for all sentient beings, eschewing violence and promoting universal peace and harmonious coexistence go against your religion, whatever it may be, then I guess it's the recycling heap for your nascent Buddhist endeavors...

If not I am growing more interested, if it means going against my religion this idea will be annihilated.

depends on your religion; for example, if this is your faith, I think you have very little to worry about; if on the other hand this is your faith, probably it's not going to work out for you; and if this is your fait then, well, honestly, I really have no idea what that combination might induce...

I can only appreciate the help I receive. thanks to the both of you so far. GOD Bless

I'm an atheist, so that last bit might not work out so well for at least one of us...

[NJM]

Wow, so would taking these vows be going against my religion?

That is something only you, and no other person on earth, can answer.

[cjurakpt]

The goal of taking Buddhist vows is not to learn shaolin kung fu. In fact, it's the other way around. If you just want to learn how to fight, go find an MMA gym.
Forget about Shaolin monks and their kung fu, vows and Buddhism until you are prepared to let go of all your old habits, including religion.

actually, taking refuge does not require, entail, or even suggest that one "give up" a previous system of beliefs: Buddhism is open-ended, and in fact does not, at heart, directly address theological issues, but i rather simply concerned with each individuals own awakening to things such as they are; and i agree about the "old habits", in the sense that one learns to notice these first and foremost, which is in and of itself already transformative...

[TenTigers]

many of the greatest Martial artists were laymen followers-unshaved disciples, such as Hung Hei Guen, Fong Sai-Yuk, um, did I mention Hung Hei-Guen?

[Leto]

actually, taking refuge does not require, entail, or even suggest that one "give up" a previous system of beliefs: Buddhism is open-ended, and in fact does not, at heart, directly address theological issues, but i rather simply concerned with each individuals own awakening to things such as they are; and i agree about the "old habits", in the sense that one learns to notice these first and foremost, which is in and of itself already transformative...

Exactly...to see things as they are, preconceived notions and beliefs must be let go. It does not mean denying the possibility that God exists. You may still develop a personal relationship with a God, if this is where your experiences lead you, but it does mean not accepting any such beliefs "on faith". In the suttas the Buddha describes more than once why it is incorrect for a seeker of truth to cling to any particular religious doctrine. If one insists on clinging to such views, then what is the good of taking vows? They're just empty words. It would be more harm than good to the vow taker, if he knows from the beginning that he won't uphold them. It would be better just to wait until a turning point has been reached in one's consciousness.

[shuaichiao]

Wow, so would taking these vows be going against my religion?

Buddhism is really more of a philosophy than a religion so it wouldn't necessarily conflict but some of their beliefs might conflict depending on which religion you are from.

[Fei Li]

Buddhism is really more of a philosophy than a religion so it wouldn't necessarily conflict but some of their beliefs might conflict depending on which religion you are from.

Basically fighting is against Buddhism.
So Shaolin fighting monks do not follow their religion in the sense it was meant to be.
Shahar Meir explains very well in his Shaolin book how they justified their infractions,
including that they eat meat, which is also forbidden in Bhuddism.