How much of wing chun do you think is used in a fight?

[SAAMAG]

Just like the title says....

Let's say you've learned all three hand forms and the dummy. How much of that do you think is used in a "real" fight? I suppose I'm wording it that way because that's the extent of my wing chun progression, the hand forms and the muk yan jong form...

and the more I analyze my fighting style, I find that I don't really use a lot of what's taught. Just the basic stuff, nothing flowery, just move in and POW. That's it. Tan, bong, pak, biu, lap, lan, chung kuen, side palm, elbows, knees...that's about it. Never found that there was a need for any of the rest more often than not. I've also found that the "wing chun" range only lasts for a few seconds before the scene dynamically changes into a different range.

So I was curious...when fighting OR sparring, how much of your wing chun do you actually tend to use?

[Sihing73]

Hello,

It's funny how even the most effective fighters usually make do with the basics. Look at some of the Great Olympic Judo players and you will notice that they win using a few basic techniques which they have drilled to perfection. Same with boxers, it is invariably those with strong basics who win consistently.

Wing Chun is a conceptual system meaning that the basic shape of the technique is not as important as the understanding of how to apply that "shape" and its variations in relation to anothers energy.

I personally feel that in a fight one is better off trying to utilize the basics, Taun Da, Pak Da, Gaun Da and of course palms, rather than all of the "fancy" or "advanced" motions. When confronted in a real situation you will not know your opponents skill so, IMHO, what I am likely to use in a fight relative to WC, other than the concepts are the basics of Taun\Gaun\Pak and perhaps Bong. I also feel that one will be better off angling and attacking off of the line, but that is just me.

Now if there are more than one opponent they I will likely try to demonstrate my old track and field skills, not sure how that relates to my WC though

[Edmund]

I don't think the point is to use as many techniques a possible!

Different people will prefer different techniques but the art is not trying to dictate personal preferences.

[SAAMAG]

Oh no...not saying that at all Edmund. Just was pondering how I only use a fraction of the wing chun relative to what I learned. Just wanted to see if there was anyone out there that used most of what they've learned or if maybe we all just use a little of whatever we prefer.

Personally, I use what is called for at the moment, which in all honesty is usually teh same things over and over, the basics. One can't really have preferences in a fight per say...

[RGVWingChun]

how many techniques you use is usually going to be dependent on how skilled of a fighter you are going against....if you are going up against someone with your equal skill level, then it might be possible that you would cycle through all your techniques and exhaust them, but if against a lesser skilled opponents, it might not be nothing that a pak da with fan sao wouldn't take care of....it all depends on who you are fighting and what they are capable of really....

my thoughts,

Moses

[jesper]

as little as possible

[imperialtaichi]

In my opinion, ALL.

Real fights are based less on techniques, and more on concepts and habbits.

So, whatever you are trained in, be it WC or TC or BJJ, you are conditioned to behave a certain way anyway. You cannot escape it.

Cheers,
John

[UKBBC]

You should just use the principles to fight. All the techniques that you learn follow the principles, but the majority of the time, training techniques teach you to be ambidextrous, independent limb movement and to flow without thinking or pausing with reference to body position in relation to the opponent.

[AmanuJRY]

I use WC concepts....always....

I've noticed the use of Tan, Fook, Jum, Guan, Lan, Gum...I use Yap and Bong Gurk alot...and some kwan sau and Po pai movements.

[k gledhill]

I did securty work in central London UK for 10 years as a extra income . I had 30-40 fist fights I can remember, lost count of the grab n exit type encounters, or just face off's that came to nothing outside bar's, nightclubs etc...

Primarily the angling strike . soem call it a twist punch, turning stance punch. I would maneuver to a guy coming at me and strike at angles usually trying for my strong side unless space wouldnt permit it.

I found the connection to training was primarily in timing to movement from an incoming partner in chi-sao. Trying to time my counter strikes just as they came in after me. Aka a tan stepping in with same foot etc...The arm over the tan struck or paked to counter...
Adding a lot of same , angling and hitting a swining /moving in & out to me heavy bag, i would time the heavy bag strikes the same for impact while getting out of the path of the incoming bag, either side.

A lot of wall bag striking for years in my personal regimen , 1000's broken up in 100's then a form or run 2-3 miles hang on a tree in local park hit again for'ms run etc...crazy Sh&t

I used pak sao's if a guy threw a swing at me and he over turned to offer the elbow as a trap...again simple charging trapping /striking and by 2 punches they would change their attitude or altitude, whichever came first....

The systems use of twisting from the heels to the elbow's in and tight , timed with a precise release of our force [ proven by inch punches to partners] is devastating. Guys will end up several feet from you in the direct line your punch met them , so they absorb all your force due to the alignmnet and timing /balance we develop in chi-sao drills.

Another by-product I found was that becasue we do so much ambidextrous work at a fast pace, guys attacking me seemed to be very obvious and gave me time to maeuver even if it was 3-4 guys all coming at me in a crowded bar...first come first served tactics work.

Open hand strikes to guy shooting in works very well, you dont break your knuckles punching the head, no pads either. as they went back holding their heads in pain I could easily kick /finish them of...

kicking with direct forward energy leaves nothing else to be done ...guys move like the last pin on a bowling alley being hit square on POW ! they flyu through the air like a shotgun hit them. or sometimes not and I watched them just double over ...eh it worked .

eye jabs if i had to deal with a ot of guys at once, good distance maintenance like a boxers jab...keep off kind of thinking, coupled with first come first served.

bong sao's are by nature low % techniques due to the guys arm having to be over mine , didnt happen alot, but in chi-sao we train so its there always. If sparring more likely to be done a lot for the obvious reasons of raising your % of being x over by a partner.

po pai' using shuffling is great for off balancing pepetually a guy or guys who are trying to fight you and you have lost space to strike, or you dont want to hit them...by keeping elbows inthe thigh muscles do all the work, that many call 'chi' ..just good structure timing etc...
chisao kicked in here as well to stay with the guy as you drove him into a wall hard or received a charge that grabbed your wrists and felt the force waves coming and timed a turning counter that 'caught ' the guy so I could 'wall slam' him instead of of him slamming me

More but , some pieces.

standing like a basic stance doing tan sao punches ..forget it . All things that arent just hitting guys in the same timing and they are ontop of you...flailing like crazy people..
I learned to hit people first after a while ,why wait when you can shut them down ...just needs experience to know when to 'spark off'.

It is then that you see simple & efficient.

fighiting is all the system knives, pole, sltckbj are one not 3 ; ) I can break out of grab using bilgee elbows and strike using slt ck ...we never fight in a basic training stance or perform like a form. We use the THINKING of tactical approach to end a fight asap. This from weapons delivering a one chop/poke stop .

[bennyvt]

deffinatly depends on your opponent. As the first form is mainly when you are facing your opponent, CK when people are coming from the side or multible and BJ when youve stuffed everything up. So unless your opponent can make you have to recover you should only have to use SLT. I know my teachers Sifu and his sifu used to go into fights with the idea of using one technique no matter what to test all the situation it could be used for. Sounds a bit too dangerous for me.
But if you aren't challenged by your opponent then SLT is all you need.

[KPM]

Let's say you've learned all three hand forms and the dummy. How much of that do you think is used in a "real" fight?

---All of it! Its not about learning a collection of individual techniques. Its about learning how to move effectively. There may be a move in the dummy form that you would never use "as is" in a fight. But that same move may be educating your body on how to pivot with a certain balance or energy, how to transition from one thing to another, etc. In a real situation you do whatever the situation dictates and whatever comes out. It should feel natural. You shouldn't be thinking in terms of..."OK, now I'm going to do that move from the Chum Kiu form"!



and the more I analyze my fighting style, I find that I don't really use a lot of
what's taught. Just the basic stuff, nothing flowery, just move in and POW. That's it. Tan, bong, pak, biu, lap, lan, chung kuen, side palm, elbows, knees...that's about it.

----So what are you considering "flowery" in your Wing Chun? My Wing Chun doesn't have anything I would call "flowery."

[SAAMAG]

I consider flowery mainly to be chasing hands (doing more than what's necessary for the sake of doing different blocks, checks, and redirections before hitting the opponent); 20 hit combos that wouldn't work in a real fight; extra footwork stepping while doing any of the previous; and so forth.

Long story short, anything that isn't following efficiency.

_______

And yes yes yes, we all use the theories and maxims all the time. I was thinking more in terms of what tends to come out in the most spontaneous of instances while you fight...that sort of thing. Nothing too in depth here, just conversation fodder.

[hunt1]

Haven't been in a fight in almost 20 years.


From last weeks sparring with the folks that teach at the MMA school next door. Some strikes,couple of kicks, 3 throws,couple of sweeps and joint locks. Lop, Pak, Jut, Gum, Wu, Fook and Gaun included within the above. Maybe a tan in there some place too but more likely a fook

[KPM]

I consider flowery mainly to be chasing hands (doing more than what's necessary for the sake of doing different blocks, checks, and redirections before hitting the opponent); 20 hit combos that wouldn't work in a real fight; extra footwork stepping while doing any of the previous; and so forth.

Long story short, anything that isn't following efficiency.

---In other words......bad Wing Chun! Then no....I don't use those things in a fighting/sparring situation. I don't do bad Wing Chun.