What is Man Sau

[LoneTiger108]

Graychuan: Wing Chun Kung Fu practitoner since June of 2006.

I'd seriously consider listening more, and not to get so defensive on your teachers behalf. No harm is intended by me (although I can't speak for others!)

Language is such a simple thing really. We just need to listen more to eachother.

My view of Man Sau.

On its way out it is extended initially as a covering strike, while "asking" for contact with your opponents arms, if it gets no contact then it manitains its purpose and lands as a strike, if a contact is made with a blocking arm it changes to a controlling technique and the other hand is initiated as a Man Sau, with the same intent to strike while being flexible to cover defensively your oppponents other arm.

Pretty understandable and more like a shared ideal of what I was saying. Thanks TJ!

There is no contact involved initially. It's a pre-set fighting posture that is already in place before anything else happens. Once contact is made, technical terms are in use depending on the situation and arm positioning, which means the question has been answered.

[Ali. R]

Ok that’s fine and it’s all good, let’s just don’t worry about the math because a lot of us hate to think anyway… It’s close to say that almost everyone here use it as a strike or for posturing (the “Mon Sao”)…

Wing Chun shouldn’t have any posturing with the “Mon Sao” for that is a dead give away of intent (only when drilling your ideals on attack)…

How to make this work is to let or help your opponent or partner understand the defensive reaction of your approach, when he or she is conformable with the ideal of your approach (defensively), then you learn to beat them with good timing and line control…

Hence the “Mon Sao” attacks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99y329TeQ3I


Ali Rahim.

[monji112000]

That’s ok, just look at the pretty picture…


Ali Rahim.

I did and I watched your clips about all that. Still makes no sense to me. Sorry like I said, maybe I'm slow.

[Graychuan]

Exactly my point! What mun sau actually IS is nothing to do with the Woo Fai Ching System. That's how YOU view it.

I read two characters and used past Martial Artists to highlight what an 'asking hand' is, what it may or can look like, not what it's purpose or mathematical equation is.
Silly me for being simple minded

As for the first bold type... I have made no secret of this. Since I am a desciple of the Woo System all I know about Man-Sao will be from the Woo System. I thought this thread was about 'what is a Man-Sao and can it be used for attack?'. Ali and I even got a follow up post form Sihing73 to clarify the info for which he was looking. If its ok for you to say its used one way then its okay for someone else to disagree. I also distinctly posted that if what you do works then keep doing it.

As for the second bold type...well, take it or leave it. The guys in Europe have found it useful.

I think the main thing is in the WOO FAI CHING system, we do not talk of Man as a strike and in other systems I guess they do. This is fine.

[Ali. R]

I did and I watched your clips about all that. Still makes no sense to me. Sorry like I said, maybe I'm slow.

Man it’s nothing wrong with being slow; just continue to take your time…


Ali Rahim.

[LoneTiger108]

Hence the “Mon Sao” attacks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99y329TeQ3I

Ali Rahim.

Ali, I see you chamber yourself in 'Mon Sao' seven times prior to executing seven sansau of identical techniques (against a stationary 'dead' Mon Sao)

The 'attacks' you demonstrate are no longer Mon Sau once they become attacks imho. You also seem to use a 'fook/wu Mon Sao' held quite relaxed and low, a signature of Cheung and Fung Sifu. Good stuff, if you read it correctly.

I'm just concerned that you may be misinterpreting the lingo that's all...

[tjwingchun]

Pretty understandable and more like a shared ideal of what I was saying. Thanks TJ!

You are welcome LoneTiger.

I have always held the belief that Wing Chun is simply science, which is a statement of how things work, it must stay simple otherwise it can become so complex that it leaves the beginner with the impression that it is unobtainable and puts them off staying on the path.

The one thing I alway refer back to that in my mind defines Wing Chun is what I call "LESSON ONE" and that is the punch to the face, it is taught from the opening of all the forms and maintains its importance throughout the time practicing Wing Chun.

When in a conflict situation and it has changed to a physical confrontation scenario rather than the psychological stage that normally precedes a fight, remember to "ASK" your opponent if he knows how to stop a punch, that is when a punch can be considered a Man Sau, if they don´t have the answer to that simplest of questions carry on asking it until they are no longer a threat.

It is only if your attacker has the knowledge and ability to prevent the strike that is when your other Wing Chun skills become required.

[Graychuan]

Graychuan: Wing Chun Kung Fu practitoner since June of 2006.

I'd seriously consider listening more, and not to get so defensive on your teachers thread. No harm is intended by me (although I can't speak for others!)

Quote me from anywhere on this thread where I was defensive. I am no threat to this thread. Im sorry If you are reading more into this text that what is actually on the screen.
Also, my knowledge of WC is sound. And I fully intend to participate in this thread and these forums as I choose.

Thank you very much.

[LoneTiger108]

...remember to "ASK" your opponent if he knows how to stop a punch, that is when a punch can be considered a Man Sau, if they don´t have the answer to that simplest of questions carry on asking it until they are no longer a threat.

Now even you are sounding like my own Sifu! Must be the decades of experience, and learning from Kwok Sifu as his personality is quite similar

I understand that it is used to set-up the attack and also remember Man Sifu saying something like 'if you get hit (accidently) by my asking hand, well, you have never trained how to fight!' (or something like that )

Guess it's now time to leave the thread for another day before it spirals into a debate over simple terms. Take care everyone..

[Ali. R]

Ali, I see you chamber yourself in 'Mon Sao' seven times prior to executing seven sansau of identical techniques (against a stationary 'dead' Mon Sao)

The 'attacks' you demonstrate are no longer Mon Sau once they become attacks imho. You also seem to use a 'fook/wu Mon Sao' held quite relaxed and low, a signature of Cheung and Fung Sifu. Good stuff, if you read it correctly.

I'm just concerned that you may be misinterpreting the lingo that's all...

I said nothing about a fight only how to prepare oneself to began to learn this concept… Why is that when one uses a clip to explain their point of view, the ideal of just showing is less then tolerated to others? It’s just a conversation?

There were three different attacks (and could be hundreds of attacks when understood), and the “Mon Sao” in which you said should be used only as posturing and nothing more (you know, the forward arm…) is puling the entire stops with the attack, trapping, pinning, pulling and jerking ect…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99y329TeQ3I


Ali Rahim

[LoneTiger108]

There were three different attacks, and the “Mon Sao” in which you said should de used as posturing and nothing more (you know, the forward arm…) is puling the entire stops with the attack, trapping, pinning, pulling and jerking ect...

My final point (coz this thread moves so fast!) is that you have just highlighted what I'm trying to say ISN'T munsau?!!

Trapping, pinning, pulling and jerking are all technical terms for the purpose/result of hand plays, thus a simple munsau has now become 'something else' or inherited another use.

I'll have to agree to disagree.

Also, my knowledge of WC is sound. And I fully intend to participate in this thread and these forums as I choose.

Feel free! That's what a forum is for. Discussions. Maybe we'll cross posts somewhere else in the future, where we can actually agree on something

[Ali. R]

My final point (coz this thread moves so fast!) is that you have just highlighted what I'm trying to say ISN'T munsau?!!

Man that’s funny is h*ll… No it’s sansau, no it’s posturing, LOL, LOL,
and only with one attack...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99y329TeQ3I


Ali Rahim.

[LoneTiger108]

Man that’s funny is h*ll… No it’s sansau, no it’s posturing, LOL, LOL, and only with one attack...

The ammount of sansau you attack with makes no difference, because their sansau not munsau imo. When have I said that sansau is munsau?? Although I did say it's a simple posture and stand by that all the way Ali.

Guess you didn't read this bit...

Trapping, pinning, pulling and jerking are all technical terms for the purpose/result of hand plays, thus a simple munsau has now become 'something else' or inherited another use.

or this...

There is no contact involved initially. It's a pre-set fighting posture that is already in place before anything else happens. Once contact is made, technical terms are in use depending on the situation and arm positioning, which means the question has been answered.

[Ali. R]

You maybe right dude, I’ll just posture with the “Mon Sao”, and maybe I’ll get better with it someday through posturing, thanks for the help…

Honestly I did stop reading it, sorry about that…


Ali Rahim.

[AndrewS]

Ali,

by my way of looking at things, your partner is showing man sao- a question, which, in the last clip, you answer with in pak, out pak, shan sao.

Andrew