OT: Nanking the film

[Mr Punch]

open old ones.

Obviously.

The Chinese Government still use it regularly to renew anti-Japanese and generally nationalistic fervour.

The Japanese Government and right wing still use it as anti-Chinese jingoistic denial.

I guess some of the Chinese people still (rightly) want more redress (they don't know or care about the extensive reparations already paid to their government by the Japanese government).

I guess some Chinese would rather let it lie.

Most Japanese I've spoken to about it are appalled to the point that they can't speak about it.

Some just don't believe it, whether through reasoning or horror.

This movie can only cause more problems... which of course doesn't mean it shouldn't have been made.

Even knowing that none of my wife's family were in the Imperial Army will not make this movie much easier for me to watch.

[diego]

Obviously.

The Chinese Government still use it regularly to renew anti-Japanese and generally nationalistic fervour.

The Japanese Government and right wing still use it as anti-Chinese jingoistic denial.

I guess some of the Chinese people still (rightly) want more redress (they don't know or care about the extensive reparations already paid to their government by the Japanese government).

I guess some Chinese would rather let it lie.

Most Japanese I've spoken to about it are appalled to the point that they can't speak about it.

Some just don't believe it, whether through reasoning or horror.

This movie can only cause more problems... which of course doesn't mean it shouldn't have been made.

Even knowing that none of my wife's family were in the Imperial Army will not make this movie much easier for me to watch.

i think the only positive humanity can find out of this story is that you need to be your own spirit, patriotism can be an unneccasry sp? evil that leads to no good...you human first not your flag or your religious gang...

[Black Jack II]

Japan's Unit 731 made the Nazi party look tame. Japan has some horrible history behind its culture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvcs5rA95FU

[1bad65]

Japan's Unit 731 made the Nazi party look tame. Japan has some horrible history behind its culture.

They were bad. A German Nazi in Nanking, John Rabe, was so appalled at the atrocities that he set up a safety zone in Nanking (The International Committee for Nanking Safety Zone).

When a Nazi is disgusted by your behavior that says alot.

Not to go off topic, but this one big reason I'll never apologize for my country dropping the A-boms on Japan.

[1bad65]

The Germans also did medical experiments on prisoners. However throughout the war Hitler himself ordered that the Germans never use chemical weapons in combat. This was due to his being gassed in WW1. He knew the Allies would retaliate with gas attacks and the thought of German soldiers being gassed actually disgusted him.

The Germans also never attempted to develop or use biological weapons, unlike the Japanese.

[Mr Punch]

Not to go off topic, but this one big reason I'll never apologize for my country dropping the A-boms on Japan.

I don't think it is necessarily off topic - we're talking about strong emotions and human reaction, but you see mate, we can't even have a conversation about this because you already decided I'm a Japanophile (whatever you define that as - ostensibly a racist term itself)...

BTW, great point Diego, but unfortunately I'm not sure modern Japanese people would give themselves a chance to assess things in that way. Dunno, some would.

[1bad65]

...we can't even have a conversation about this because you already decided I'm a Japanophile (whatever you define that as - ostensibly a racist term itself)...

And where did I say that?

[Mr Punch]

The Harry Truman/reasons for the A-bomb thread.

You saw the name Harry Truman and went off in a frothing rage over what you decided I was saying instead of reading it and bothering to pause to understand it for a second, when I wasn't actually a million miles away from your position. I bet you didn't actually Google what I thought you might be interested in Googling either did you? The bit about Truman and his decisions for the bombings: you assumed that I was talking about hindsight, for some reason not thinking for a moment that he'd considered the decision very very carefully for some time before the attack...!

Anyway, it makes interesting reading (the main site you'd come up with if you were to Google what I suggested): it would help you to put your argument in perspective without having to change your opinion. Assuming you don't start frothing again...!

It's understandable, mind. I froth every time I look at anything about Nanking. And I froth every time I have to deal with some dumb **** in the school I work in where of course any discussion of their history books is not done. The worst thing isn't the out-and-out racists but the complete lack of any sense of a place in the world even among knowledgeable, intelligent, nice people: naivety is still unbelievably rife.

They really really don't know. And it's not getting any better.

Of course I don't blame the people any more than I blame my forefathers for the atrocities of the British Empire... I know they weren't personally involved. But I do blame them for their lack of interest. If I point out our policy of starving approx 30 million Indians in the famine of 1876 in response to anybody's tripe about the Empire essentially being a force for good, I expect some reasoned discussion and some thought: if I point out anything about Nanking over here to the vast majority of the people - that's it, I'm a ****ing pariah.

Anyway, I'm in danger of rambling.

[Mr Punch]

Japan's Unit 731 made the Nazi party look tame. Japan has some horrible history behind its culture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvcs5rA95FU

Thanks for the link BJ, I'd love to put that on the five huge TV screens in Shibuya.

Mind you, while I was at it, I'd love for my government to apologise to the estimated 30 million we starved in India, the 300 000 we massacred in Kenya in the Mao Mao uprising, etc etc... I don't think that excuses the Japanese, nor is it equivalent in atrocity (no mass rape, no experiments etc), but it still ain't so great.