poses an interesting thought about gradings

[packard]

Hi All,

My teacher was discussing gradings recently. we have a student who is really good at every thing from sparring, to forms, fitness, flexibility - a good all rounder.

However, he does have serious attitude and an arogance about him.

my teacher acknowledges his skill but says that he is not ready to grade for his black belt because of his attitude.

is this right?? he has good skill and has standard beyond most of the black belts in the class, but he won't get his becuase of an attitude!

any thoughts??

P

[hskwarrior]

My Sifu Always Had A Saying......

"i Don't Need Tough Guys In My School, They're Already Tough!!!!"

[David Jamieson]

a black belt and golden gloves, are not the same thing.

what does the black belt represent in your school?

is it a measure of foms, skill and ability in martial art or is it a measure of kungfu?

I don't see a problem with not wanting an ass making claim to a senior rank in your organization.

He can always join a beltless club and just do his thing there or take up something else that doesn't bother with a persons character at all.

[NJM]

Hi All,

My teacher was discussing gradings recently. we have a student who is really good at every thing from sparring, to forms, fitness, flexibility - a good all rounder.

However, he does have serious attitude and an arogance about him.

my teacher acknowledges his skill but says that he is not ready to grade for his black belt because of his attitude.

is this right?? he has good skill and has standard beyond most of the black belts in the class, but he won't get his becuase of an attitude!

any thoughts??

P

I think that if a blackbelt represents the highest exponent of your school, making sure that person will represent your school well does have some importance.

However, it's not your instructor's job to instill basic morals and proper conduct in grown men. You are part of a martial arts gym, not a preschool.

What style do you practice?

[golden arhat]

do away with belts






simple

[cranky old man]

agreed dont use belts do gradings like boxing you move up when you can handle someone more skilled. one of my friends from the past either master shintani founder of the wado kai or bob dauglish a 6th in goju told me over 40 years ago belts are just to hold up your pants and a black belt is when you start really learning.

[SIFU RON]

Belts and Grading have always been a touchy subject.

If you use them , don't abuse them.

Attitude is an important factor in my opinion. Many people look up to Sifu's and teachers, especially the ones that are sincere. Bad attitudes don't cut it in our schools.

[ngokfei]

Rankings are to acknowledge individuals who have been indoctrinated into a particular order.

It of course has nothing to do with an individuals skill. People like to be around people like themselves.

If this is a requirement at your school then its best to tell students about them before they join your school. has your teacher informed this student of his decision?

Actually there could be legal ramifications against the school if the student decided to pursue it. Kind of like discrimination etc.

[SanHeChuan]

Black belts represent their teacher, so If you don't want someone rep-ing you. Don't promote them.

If you can withhold a belt for skill you can certainly hold it for attitude. Most only hold it for money though.

But if they are that bad, you shouldn't even teach them to begin with. Does he expect to teach this student humility or something? Not an easy thing to do.

However, it's not your instructor's job to instill basic morals and proper conduct in grown men. You are part of a martial arts gym, not a preschool.

It's his job to teach what the F*ck ever he wants. It's his school and there is no governing body. If the students don't want to learn what he is teaching they can leave, that is his only limitation for curriculum.

Actually there could be legal ramifications against the school if the student decided to pursue it. Kind of like discrimination etc.

less so if he was clear with his expectation for testing. If he said up front character was part of getting promoted...
He'd still have to prove that the student didn't meet those expectations. That would be a trick. Maybe a psych test.

[ngokfei]

1. Is this teacher running a professional School? or just a Club?

2. Does the student sign a contract?

3. Is there a document that lists the specific requirements for ranking? Does this include items like Attitude, etc?

Generally if the student has satisfied all the requirements for taking the ranking test, the teacher cannot suddenly instill new requirements. If the student is breaking any documented rules then the teacher should dismiss/cancel his agreement with this student. Otherwise they might and should be sued for breach of contract.

This would most likely include all Tuition ever paid to the teacher/school and damages for wasting the students time with false promises, etc.

[EarthDragon]

Pacard, I commend your shifu.

I have many times not passed or promoted a student based on similar things.

I had a student who was awesome at kung fu, however that was in class..........he was not so awesome outside of the class.

A black belt is not just a ranking of skill it is a ranking of integrity.

[tattooedmonk]

Hi All,

My teacher was discussing gradings recently. we have a student who is really good at every thing from sparring, to forms, fitness, flexibility - a good all rounder.

However, he does have serious attitude and an arogance about him.

my teacher acknowledges his skill but says that he is not ready to grade for his black belt because of his attitude.

is this right?? he has good skill and has standard beyond most of the black belts in the class, but he won't get his becuase of an attitude!

any thoughts??

P

I agree with your teacher and others in this thread. I do not understand how a few others add different elements into the equation that have nothng to do with your question.

As for it being a martial arts school and not a preschool I find that quite funny.

Why is it that I keep hearing that martial arts schools should not be responsible for teaching; discipline , honor , respect , humility, and the like and that these are things that should be taught at home??.

With great power comes great responsibility.

It is easy to say do not let this person join or whatever , but what if the lack of these things developes or only reveals themselves long after the person has joined?? What if someone comes in that lacks these fundamentals and wants to have them or learn them, should you not be able to help them obtain them??

Martial arts is more than learning how to punch ,kick , grappling, and fighting, it is our responsibility as instructors to teach students this.

[MasterKiller]

Martial arts is more than learning how to punch ,kick , grappling, and fighting, it is our responsibility as instructors to teach students this.

What qualifies you (or anyone else's sifu) to be someone elses' moral compass?

Generally, people with bad attitudes and poor work ethics get weeded out of schools that fight because their ego can't take it.

[tattooedmonk]

What qualifies you (or anyone else's sifu) to be someone elses' moral compass?

Generally, people with bad attitudes and poor work ethics get weeded out of schools that fight because their ego can't take it.

I would say my degree in psychology and philosophy.

Any person who is a teacher and/or leader has the responsibility to teach others, mostly by example, how to use their skills and teachings for the betterment of our families, communties, and society.

There are laws , rules , and codes we all have to live by or we will get locked up for the rest of our lives.

What do you mean, specifically, by your last sentence and how it pertains to this?

[MasterKiller]

I would say my degree in psychology and philosophy.

So immoral people can't hold degrees? All these degreed school teachers banging their students are qualified moral counselors?

Any person who is a teacher and/or leader has the responsibility to teach others, mostly by example, how to use their skills and teachings for the betterment of our families, communties, and society.

See the Busted Teachers thread for my response to this, or Google "republican pedophiles" to see how others are leading by example...

What do you mean, specifically, by your last sentence and how it pertains to this?

WHat I mean is that hard work in class, real work, weeds out a lot of undesirable people. The kind of people who need moral guidance from their martial arts instuctors aren't usually the kind of people who like to show up and sweat.

The troubled ones who stay on are bettered from learning how to work hard and perservere, not from the Kwai Chang Caine quotes the teacher espouses at the end of class every night.