I'm not sure what you are saying here. But now that you bring this up IMO the "this is for show' and 'not what we really do' is just a 'red flag' (no pun intended) that there is a lot of guess work going on at Shaolin.Okay, first, everyone has to stop bothering to mention modern public show Shaolin cause it is just a circus act, it has not bearing on anything anyone is concerned with.
As I said most of the martial arts these monks comes from various lay sources not a single lineage. take Shi De Gen, one of his teachers, Wu Shan lin was a layman. Yes yes I know that the claim is that Shan lin's father was once a Shaolin monk. Be that as it may, this lineage actually has very few sets. Shi De Gen was a martial art enthusiast and learned much of his material from other sources - in other words its a mixed bag. As I mentioned in another post somewhere, this is true for the other 'old' monks as well. Most of these people learned after the 1920's. So in a matter of speaking its not that old. All in all it makes for dicy research. I can buy that all this material is a good sampling of what was still around the region in the late 70's but to my mind it's one source and certain not a comprehensive nor a definitive one.I am only concerned with the sets that all the oldest monks have passed on to Shi De Gen, Shi De Yang, Shi De Gian, Shi Se Yuan, the two Liu's, and so on.
The only reason to bring this up is to make clear that I take what comes out of Shaolin today with salt.
As per my other post, i would agree with Huang Baoshan's (黄寶珊 -1905-1998)There is no use bothering with any other things that "Shaolin" circus group does. ALL THESE OLD lineages, indeed do "The Hong Quan before 1900 was known in Shaolin within two sets, the Shaolin Xiao hongquan and Shaolin Da hongquan. " I have documentation of these sets, and have learned them, this Da Hong Quan
is actually the Lao Jia Quan,
view of this Hong Quan (see my post: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...t=47251&page=3).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1h8pyH7Q3Y
also done by a layman in the early 80's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Nqt...elated&search=
I am assuming that this article also referes to the above set.
http://shaolinwushuyuan.51.net/ywlw/2.htm
Tell me something about Lao Jia Quan and its history. . . any video clips on the net around?
many people do not know that. This other Da Hong Quan that people often see is the 6 Roads of Da Hong Quan. What Huang didn't know (realized, whatever) is that there is the Xiao Hong Quan (that everyone is familiar with) then these 6 Roads of Da Hong Quan, and then there is Lao Hong Quan, they are all from Zhao Kuang Yin's Song Hong Quan, that he passed to Shaolin at some point.
Second, Shaolin Quan means all the various long fist styles practiced throughout Henan Province that was once derived from the early sets created by the martial guards at Shaolin under Fu Ju's supervision, such as Song Tai Tzu Chang Quan.As I pointed out in another forum, Shaolin sets have not only signature movements but a signature structure.There is a series of signature moves that come from this set and if they are not found in a style's sets, then they are NOT Shaolin Quan, but some other kind of long fist.
As far as Hong Quan sure I would love to chat about Zhao Kuangyin aka. Taizu vs Zhu Yanzhang aka. Taizu and 紅拳 vs 洪拳. If you're still into it.I't s a silly question / statement in the first place.
Well, I;m bored of this topic, I would like to discuss Shaolin history / forms, etc with people who would like to do so,
So, I am starting a new thread on Hong Quan, and please if you want something to contribute answer that thread, thanks!
No offense to anyone meant, please
r.