An Epic of Internet-challenge Stupidity

[Knifefighter]

This is your experience not mine. They are different, no one is right and no one is wrong, just different .

You are exactly right.

This is exactly why it is so ludicrous for a standup fighter to be making proclamations about how dangerous it is to fight on the ground.

You don't hear ground fighters telling standup guys how dangerous it is to fight while standing.

[tattooedmonk]

You are right, not everyone knows how to fight.

The people I have known (as well as myself) who have taken the fight to the ground have either been wrestlers, judo players or BJJ practitioners... the fact that the opponents were inexperienced on the ground made it and even better choice to fight there.

This stands to reason if they are experienced ground fighters ,but what if they are standup fighters ??!

[tattooedmonk]

You are exactly right.

This is exactly why it is so ludicrous for a standup fighter to be making proclamations about how dangerous it is to fight on the ground.

You don't hear ground fighters telling standup guys how dangerous it is to fight while standing.

Like I said before, there are elements of danger in a fight no matter if you are standing or on the ground.

the only reasons that anyone would say this is for lack of the ability to move or run away.

[Knifefighter]

This stands to reason if they are experienced ground fighters ,but what if they are standup fighters ??!

One should fight with one's strengths and/or force his opponent to fight to his weaknesses.

You will never find me advocating that a standup fighter take the fight to the ground.

[tattooedmonk]

One should fight with one's strengths and/or force his opponent to fight to his weaknesses.

You will never find me advocating that a standup fighter take the fight to the ground.

exactly.

[Fu-Pow]

This is valid when it is relevant to the argument.

In this case you are making your statements based on theory and speculation vs. actual experience. Actual experience tells me that you are wrong.




Every real fight I have been, with the exception of two, has gone to the ground. This includes multiple opponents and groups of combatants. I have also witnessed many fights that have gone to the ground. The only time that it has turned out badly for the person taking it down has been one guy whose opponent bit him in the chest when he pulled guard.

My point is that I don't know you and you don't know me. You don't know what I have and haven't experienced and/or seen, so it is fruitless to attack my credibility.

It would be just as easy for me to say that you are making up your experiences and attack your credibility. We are on equal footing here....resulting in a stalemate and which the only recourse is to go into personal attacks and name calling.

And that, my friend, is a waste of time, I have better things to do than sling pot shots at someone I've never even met.

FP

[Knifefighter]

It would be just as easy for me to say that you are making up your experiences and attack your credibility.

I never said you were making up your experiences. You said fighting on the ground was generally a bad decision, but didn't back that up with any personal experience or objective data.

How many times have you taken a fight to the ground and been beaten up by bystanders? How many times have you been a bystander and jumped in to beat up someone who had taken the fight to the ground? How many times have you seen this happen vs. how many times have you seen a fight continue on the ground without someone interferring? Do you have any objective data to back up your statements?

[Fu-Pow]

I never said you were making up your experiences. You said fighting on the ground was generally a bad decision, but didn't back that up with any personal experience or objective data.

And rather than say why this is a "good" decision you stated that I could not know what I know because I lacked the experience to know, thereby attacking my credibility rather than my argument.

How many times have you taken a fight to the ground and been beaten up by bystanders? How many times have you been a bystander and jumped in to beat up someone who had taken the fight to the ground? How many times have you seen this happen vs. how many times have you seen a fight continue on the ground without someone interferring?

I can tell you its not zero, but its really besides the point. If you go to the ground your face is closer to feet, your mobility is limited and you are fully engaged with one opponent for an extended amount of time. It logically follows that this is a more vulnerable position than one where you have more mobility, are not fully engaged with any one opponent and your face is ****her from feet.

What I can tell you is in the 2 situations where I have been attacked by multiple opponents that if I had gone to the ground I most likely would have been screwed. Instead of fists I would have been pummeled by feet and most can kick a lot harder than they can punch. Furthermore, the feet are often covered in hardened leather and sometimes reinforced with steel. Imagine if you strapped hard leather, steel reinforced boxing gloves on your hands? Even the most rote beginner could **** you up pretty bad with a well placed punch.

FP

FP

[unkokusai]

If you go to the ground your face is closer to feet, your mobility is limited and you are fully engaged with one opponent for an extended amount of time. It logically follows that this is a more vulnerable position than one where you have more mobility, are not fully engaged with any one opponent and your face is ****her from feet.

What I can tell you is in the 2 situations where I have been attacked by multiple opponents that if I had gone to the ground I most likely would have been screwed. Instead of fists I would have been pummeled by feet and most can kick a lot harder than they can punch. Furthermore, the feet are often covered in hardened leather and sometimes reinforced with steel. Imagine if you strapped hard leather, steel reinforced boxing gloves on your hands? Even the most rote beginner could **** you up pretty bad with a well placed punch.

Oh, the BS never ends...........

[Fu-Pow]

Oh, the BS never ends...........

Baloney sandwiches?

[xcakid]

I like balogna sandwiches. Like em fried first though. With lettuce and tomato on wheat bread. Lots of mayo.

[sanjuro_ronin]

My balogna has a first name, its Oscar...

[PangQuan]

Ive personally been around several multiple person scenario's.

Ive got one thing to say about them. USUALLY, you can get out by not even going there.

If your putting yourself in a situation where you have the possiblity of being attacked by multiple people you are likely:

Dealing with gang members. SO DONT

Getting involved in a situation that is heavy with crowd mentality: IE: Local situation where likely there are multiple different parties involved. NOT A GOOD IDEA. You never know how the tide of the crowd will go, best not to get involved

Law Enforcment: Riots, Protests, domestic disturbances, gangs, etc: all crowd situations that are handled in the best way possible.

What does the law enforcement officers have going for them that regular people dont? Back up, training and gear.

If your going to go to a situation that has even a 1% possibility of becoming multiple person situation, you are best off bringing your own back up and gear or simply not going.

A weapon is a must for a MAS (multple attacker scenario/situation) if you KNOW your going to be dealing with multiples and you DONT bring a weapon, you deserve what you get because your just being completely ignorant.

Best thing to do is just stay out of it. If you CANNOT, bring a weapon and friends. Otherwise dont go.

If a group of fools roll up on you when your alone, dont get cornered, keep aware, know your openings for retreat, take the retreat at full speed as soon as possible.

and always remember, you have no face to save if your ass is in the grinder.

[xcakid]

Ive personally been around several multiple person scenario's.

Ive got one thing to say about them. USUALLY, you can get out by not even going there.

If your putting yourself in a situation where you have the possiblity of being attacked by multiple people you are likely:

Dealing with gang members. SO DONT

Getting involved in a situation that is heavy with crowd mentality: IE: Local situation where likely there are multiple different parties involved. NOT A GOOD IDEA. You never know how the tide of the crowd will go, best not to get involved

Law Enforcment: Riots, Protests, domestic disturbances, gangs, etc: all crowd situations that are handled in the best way possible.

What does the law enforcement officers have going for them that regular people dont? Back up, training and gear.

If your going to go to a situation that has even a 1% possibility of becoming multiple person situation, you are best off bringing your own back up and gear or simply not going.

A weapon is a must for a MAS (multple attacker scenario/situation) if you KNOW your going to be dealing with multiples and you DONT bring a weapon, you deserve what you get because your just being completely ignorant.

Best thing to do is just stay out of it. If you CANNOT, bring a weapon and friends. Otherwise dont go.

If a group of fools roll up on you when your alone, dont get cornered, keep aware, know your openings for retreat, take the retreat at full speed as soon as possible.

and always remember, you have no face to save if your ass is in the grinder.

Every street fight I have been in or witnessed in my entire life has been a multiple attacker scenario. Not all gang related. Just mob mentality. Fights at clubs/bars and at parties.

Most memorable was a party in Newport Beach. Guy was there enjoying it. Another guy picks a fight with him. They start the ole puffing of the chest and posturing. Then he was asked to step outside. When he did the guy that challenged him had his friends situated outside. About 5-6guys jumped him. It only took a minute, but by the time the dudes friends got outside to help, he already looked like minced meat.

Been witnessed to stabbings where they was no posturing. Just a guy walking up to you and stabbing you then running away. Been in a house when a drive by happened. Been in bar brawls where punches are just thrown from everywhere. I've seen many fights go to ground only to have other people jump in. Most recent fight I witnessed was last year at a bar. Started off one on one until the bouncer got a hold of them. Threw them out and it became a free for all with all the friends and acquintances jumping. Bouncers, participants and cops.

This is why I think MMA is the WORST for street fights.

One on one ring fighting, I don't believe a decent MMA will get beat. Out in the street, they don't have a chance.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't understand why you would think that a decent MMA would go the ground on the street.

I wouldn't.