An Epic of Internet-challenge Stupidity

[Shaolin Wookie]

And would wind up on the ground.

[The Xia]

I am of the I-Ching Bu-ti clan. Also GM of Gun Go Pow. And created my own style of Hung Wei Lo. Under approval of Great GM Kim Young Guy. :Bow: May a 1000 goats mow your yard so you may enjoy the peace of your weekend.

Thankyou grandmaster. Would you happen to be acquinted with sifu David Carradine?

I may be a ninja, true. But I am also a man. And men do have feelings.

I walk with heavy heart today.

Why? Perhaps you will feel better if you meditate on the way of the Judo Katana. When you feel better, feel free to share your teachings involving the spiritualization of the tiger mind.

[bredmond812]

Hey, it is probably moot by now, but this isnt the second board that this challenge match has spilled into. Even Emptyflower has more than one thread dedicated to this subject and related info, totalling over 65 pages.

I wonder if VH1 is going to tap into this and put this on some kind of "Greatest Internet Beefs" show.

B Red

[Fu-Pow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fu-Pow View Post
I think what it shows is that the ground is a vulnerable position. Both those guys are lucky that there wasn't someone waiting "in the wings" to pound them or worse from that position....steel toed boot to the head anyone?.

Silly statement. If there was anybody waiting do you think either one of them would have chosen that option? It's not like it's an automatic reflex.

My suggestion to you is that should you get in any kind of group altercation you take it straight to the ground and stay there as long as possible. Hope you enjoyed your teeth why you had them.

Quote:
Its shows that groundgrappling knowledge is essential but that it is also essential to get up and out of a ground grappling situation as quickly as possible.

Which nearly anyone, including most BJJers, would agree with.

Really? Then why are competitions like UFC (started by a BJJer) structured such that groundgrappling can go on the full length of the match? It makes no sense.

[Knifefighter]

Really? Then why are competitions like UFC (started by a BJJer) structured such that groundgrappling can go on the full length of the match? It makes no sense.

Because the UFC is a one on one fight.

[Knifefighter]

Quote:
Its shows that groundgrappling knowledge is essential but that it is also essential to get up and out of a ground grappling situation as quickly as possible.

Actually, I would say it shows how effective ground control can be against someone who is much bigger.

It also shows that you've got nothing to worry about in staying on the ground in a "multiple opponent" situation when your backup outnumbers the other side's backup.

[Fu-Pow]

Because the UFC is a one on one fight.

And?

.............

[Knifefighter]

And?

.............

In a one-on-one fight, the fight goes where it goes. Obviously a BJJ, Sambo, or wrestling stylist would like to control and finish the fight on the ground.

[Mr Punch]

My suggestion to you is that should you get in any kind of group altercation you take it straight to the ground and stay there as long as possible. Hope you enjoyed your teeth why you had them.

You just completely ignored my point: this wasn't a group brawl and the chances of it turning into one were very very slight.

No-one else was going to back Springer up: Omar was the only one there who maybe would have done but he grabbed the camera to film it. Jordan made the right call in risking the takedown - as evidenced by the fact that he then wasn't subsequently stomped by any of Springer's companions.

On another board, somebody said: if the guy with the camera had been another enemy with a knife it would have been a different story. It wasn't. If it had have been a chance, I'm sure Jordan wouldn't have gone for the double leg... although with that ****-poor flying kick, maybe not...

The only problem with a double-leg on concrete in that kind of sit IMO is that if Springer had have cracked his head the wrong way off the tarmac, Jordan may have been facing a manslaughter/murder charge. Since he had the opportunity to sucker punch Springer, he should've prob gone for a quick standing choke.

Knifefighter is right about the UFC too.

[boshea]

Really? Then why are competitions like UFC (started by a BJJer) structured such that groundgrappling can go on the full length of the match? It makes no sense.

Because the UFC is a one on one fight.

And?

.............

I think the point KF is trying to make is that in a one-on-one fight (such as a UFC match), you don't have to worry about your opponent's buddies attacking you when you've taken the figh to the ground, because in a one-on-one fight (by definition), his buddies aren't there to back him up.

[Fu-Pow]

It also shows that you've got nothing to worry about in staying on the ground in a "multiple opponent" situation when your backup outnumbers the other side's backup.

It only takes one steel toed kick to the face. Numbers don't really matter, ground is dangerous place to be when its not the ring.

FP

[Fu-Pow]

You just completely ignored my point:

Didn't ignore it.....didn't understand it.

this wasn't a group brawl and the chances of it turning into one were very very slight.

It doesn't have to be a "brawl." When you are involved in grappling on the ground, it makes you vulnerable to being attacked by an opponent that it not directly engaged with you.

My point is that the strategy taking it to the ground presents an added element of risk when other people are involved. Everyone there was a trained martial artist. The dude in the headlock could have taken all kinds of pounding in the flanks from the Omarthefish for example.

No-one else was going to back Springer up: Omar was the only one there who maybe would have done but he grabbed the camera to film it. Jordan made the right call in risking the takedown
On another board, somebody said: if the guy with the camera had been another enemy with a knife it would have been a different story. It wasn't. If it had have been a chance, I'm sure Jordan wouldn't have gone for the double leg... although with that ****-poor flying kick, maybe not...

Hindsight is 20/20. To say that it was a good call in hindsight is stating the obvious. Reality works in terms of probabilities, not absolute. My point is that there is a much higher probability of sustaining injuries while engaged in ground grappling for extended periods of time with other people around.

I've been in a bar brawl before. I was smacked upside the head with a beer bottle (which left a one inch gash near my temple) and pummeled by 3 dudes. Because of my kung fu training I was able to stay on my feet and cover up. If I'd gone to the ground my head would have been in direct vicinity of these dudes feet. One of them is wearing a boot and all of a sudden I'd be missing some teeth.

Extended ground grappling is fine for the ring, a controlled one on one situation. But for street, stay on your feet (hey and it rhymes too.) This doesn't negate the necessity of learning to grapple on the ground. It just means that if you go down, you need to learn to get up and out quickly.

If NHB type events want to reflect "reality" better than they should put a time limit on ground grappling....long enough to demonstrate skill but short enough to reflect the vulnerability of that position on the street.

FP

[Fu-Pow]

In a one-on-one fight, the fight goes where it goes. Obviously a BJJ, Sambo, or wrestling stylist would like to control and finish the fight on the ground.

I think that's an acceptable strategy if 1) you are already there and 2) if its your specialty......but what we're really talking about is time. In the ring you can spend 30 minutes on the ground trying to tap out the opponent. On the street you'd want to finish it in 3 seconds, get up and get out of that vulnerable position.

FP

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

If NHB type events want to reflect "reality" better than they should put a time limit on ground grappling....long enough to demonstrate skill but short enough to reflect the vulnerability of that position on the street

Reply]
Or have guys from the opposing team run in and start kicking the guy on top and beating him silly as soon as it goes to the ground.

[Knifefighter]

I think that's an acceptable strategy if 1) you are already there and 2) if its your specialty......but what we're really talking about is time. In the ring you can spend 30 minutes on the ground trying to tap out the opponent. On the street you'd want to finish it in 3 seconds, get up and get out of that vulnerable position.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I'm guessing you have very little, or no, experience in real fights that have gone to the ground.

I am pretty experienced in both being involved in street fights that have gone to the ground, as well as being witness to them, and my conclusion is different than yours.

Funny how it is almost always the guys with no, or extremely limited, actual groundfighting experience on the street who make all the proclamations on how bad it is to go there.