An Epic of Internet-challenge Stupidity

[Notintheface]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin
I don't understand why you would think that a decent MMA would go the ground on the street.

I wouldn't.

Because according to some on this forum its the preferred position

*Takes Troll beard off*

Being on the ground is far from being an optimal position during a street fight. Let me see if I can be the voice of summarry and good reason.

It is not being proported that being on the floor during a street encounter as being the best or the most strategically sound. What is being implied is that during most street fights going to the ground is often a more than common occurence.

Just because this occurs does not remove the chance that you can "attempt" to get back up. But in order to get back up you have to train for such an event. If you look at the JFS/Omar event and judge for yourself. (sidenote I am not juding who won/loss was right wrong or whatever) JFS legs were dead in the water, instead of basing and attempting to get back up.

If you wish we can ignore that scene and create a what if scenario. If you get attacked by two opponents. One opponent will more than likely swing or tackle you to throw you donw so you can get stomped. Without proper ground skill what is the possiblity of the following

1-What do you think is the likely hood that you would not be taken down and stomped?

2-Are you going to be able to defend yourself from a given position if you do not train from that position?

3- If takend down by one person how will you get back up and defend from having the second person stomp on you? Do you know how to pull and force the person on top of you into a position to maybe sheild yourself fromt eh second persons attack? IF you think yes, how can you believe you are cappable of this if you don not regularly train in this position?

Even I know that if I am acosted by more than 1 indivdual I am running for the hills. No matter how well you train when playing the numbers game the odds are against you.


It is important as a Martial artist to have a strong understanding of all ranges. Only an ignorant fighter would leave a hole in his/her armor. In order to defeat and defend against a foe's technique you must have working knowledge of how they are going to attack,defend or just in general behave.

In order to do this, you must beable to seperate yourself from uninformed training. This is the whole MMA arguement in a nut shell. You can no longer say " Well, I can slap you in the nuts and that will stop the take down" This has already been proven to be wrong but yet people still use it as a valid technique to defend a grapple techniqe A.

We MMA folk are the of the "SHOW ME" state of mind. If you are unable to make what you say is effective work then guess what it doesn't work.


Xcakid makes a good point

Maybe I just grew up in screwed up neighborhoods where one on one fights were rare, but to me that is the reality of a street fight. Weapons and a melee type situation. And now shootings. How many of you

You are so right, one on one fights in certain areas are rare and what is even more rare is actually defending yourself in any meaningful manner besides running away. In a multiple opponent fight you are fighting in an attempt to get that one opening where you can run your ass off and get away.

When you train in artial arts you are really training to defend yourself in a one on one situations. More people getting involved, weapons, and terrain are all variables beyond your control. You increase you chances of success and survivablity by being well versed in all areas od survival.

I make sure I know how to shot a firearm, I study stand up (Muay Thai and Boxing), I practice wrestling but I am looking into a Bjj school due to the use of the gi (Sidenote: Imagine fighting in the street where a person is wearing a hoody,sweatshirt,t-shirt or what have you. Knowing gi useage is good knowledge) I still practice my throws I learned during my stint in kung fu and I am currently looking for a good Shuai Jiao or Judo school.

What I am trying to say is that, in a long drawn out way, that when it boild down to teaching and passing on martial technique remeber that you have someone's life in your hands. If they can not defend themselves with what you taught them and they get harmed who fault is it? Stop all the BS and jsut man up, certain **** in Kung fu just does not work and you need to learn ground work. It is not more important than learning a proper striking game but it something you need reguardless of you cut.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

One thing I would like to add is that there are many "would be" grapplers who think they can grapple but can't. Quite a few years back I fought a guy outside a bar who thought he could grapple. We started out standing and after he got clocked with a few combinations he clinched me and attempted to shoot a double leg. I sprawled and he ate a few knees to the head, ending the fight. In my experience there are many guys who claim to be grapplers but can't grapple for ****. Same as there are guys who claim to be great boxers or stand up fighters but suck as well. Use your strengths. Also, multiple opponents will get you killed in stand up or grappling, anyone who says other wise is not experienced in that situation, period.

[sanjuro_ronin]

*Takes Troll beard off*

Being on the ground is far from being an optimal position during a street fight. Let me see if I can be the voice of summarry and good reason.

It is not being proported that being on the floor during a street encounter as being the best or the most strategically sound. What is being implied is that during most street fights going to the ground is often a more than common occurence.

Just because this occurs does not remove the chance that you can "attempt" to get back up. But in order to get back up you have to train for such an event. If you look at the JFS/Omar event and judge for yourself. (sidenote I am not juding who won/loss was right wrong or whatever) JFS legs were dead in the water, instead of basing and attempting to get back up.

If you wish we can ignore that scene and create a what if scenario. If you get attacked by two opponents. One opponent will more than likely swing or tackle you to throw you donw so you can get stomped. Without proper ground skill what is the possiblity of the following

1-What do you think is the likely hood that you would not be taken down and stomped?

2-Are you going to be able to defend yourself from a given position if you do not train from that position?

3- If takend down by one person how will you get back up and defend from having the second person stomp on you? Do you know how to pull and force the person on top of you into a position to maybe sheild yourself fromt eh second persons attack? IF you think yes, how can you believe you are cappable of this if you don not regularly train in this position?

Even I know that if I am acosted by more than 1 indivdual I am running for the hills. No matter how well you train when playing the numbers game the odds are against you.


It is important as a Martial artist to have a strong understanding of all ranges. Only an ignorant fighter would leave a hole in his/her armor. In order to defeat and defend against a foe's technique you must have working knowledge of how they are going to attack,defend or just in general behave.

In order to do this, you must beable to seperate yourself from uninformed training. This is the whole MMA arguement in a nut shell. You can no longer say " Well, I can slap you in the nuts and that will stop the take down" This has already been proven to be wrong but yet people still use it as a valid technique to defend a grapple techniqe A.

We MMA folk are the of the "SHOW ME" state of mind. If you are unable to make what you say is effective work then guess what it doesn't work.


Xcakid makes a good point


You are so right, one on one fights in certain areas are rare and what is even more rare is actually defending yourself in any meaningful manner besides running away. In a multiple opponent fight you are fighting in an attempt to get that one opening where you can run your ass off and get away.

When you train in artial arts you are really training to defend yourself in a one on one situations. More people getting involved, weapons, and terrain are all variables beyond your control. You increase you chances of success and survivablity by being well versed in all areas od survival.

I make sure I know how to shot a firearm, I study stand up (Muay Thai and Boxing), I practice wrestling but I am looking into a Bjj school due to the use of the gi (Sidenote: Imagine fighting in the street where a person is wearing a hoody,sweatshirt,t-shirt or what have you. Knowing gi useage is good knowledge) I still practice my throws I learned during my stint in kung fu and I am currently looking for a good Shuai Jiao or Judo school.

What I am trying to say is that, in a long drawn out way, that when it boild down to teaching and passing on martial technique remeber that you have someone's life in your hands. If they can not defend themselves with what you taught them and they get harmed who fault is it? Stop all the BS and jsut man up, certain **** in Kung fu just does not work and you need to learn ground work. It is not more important than learning a proper striking game but it something you need reguardless of you cut.

Well said, for a "troll"

[Knifefighter]

Being on the ground is far from being an optimal position during a street fight.

I disagree... sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't.

You are so right, one on one fights in certain areas are rare

I'd be willing to bet that most "street" encounters (these would include people squaring off to fight, robberies & assaults, road rage, etc.) involve one person against one other person and that other people jumping in comprise less than 20% of these confrontations.

[synack]

Either way, any good fighter should know how to fight both ways.

[The Willow Sword]

I think it is real funny that there is all this talk about going to the ground in a streetfight and what you would do. I think maybe everyone is too competition brainwashed and thinking about the way it would be if you were in the ring in a controlled situation with RULES AND REGS. I think you are going to find the streetfight a tad different than that

Its one thing to go into the ring and fight and show respect for your opponent etc etc blah blah, and when you are getting into a fight that demands you protect your life,because say you get in a street fight and you go to the ground and not only are you dealing with someone on top of you pounding your face or choking you but also they have a knife and they are gutting you as well.

Or maybe its not as bad now fighting on the street since we are all addicted to the UFC and these fight competitions that somewhere along the way we have been PROPERLY brainwashed in to making a street confrontation a safe and easy thing with rules and regs. Im sure the Thug out there is thinking "hey you know i should maybe make this a fight like the UFC would do it and give that other guy a chance"
Yeah right.

Peace,TWS

[unkokusai]

Oh great, this again.........................

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I think it is real funny that there is all this talk about going to the ground in a streetfight and what you would do. I think maybe everyone is too competition brainwashed and thinking about the way it would be if you were in the ring in a controlled situation with RULES AND REGS. I think you are going to find the streetfight a tad different than that

Its one thing to go into the ring and fight and show respect for your opponent etc etc blah blah, and when you are getting into a fight that demands you protect your life,because say you get in a street fight and you go to the ground and not only are you dealing with someone on top of you pounding your face or choking you but also they have a knife and they are gutting you as well.

Or maybe its not as bad now fighting on the street since we are all addicted to the UFC and these fight competitions that somewhere along the way we have been PROPERLY brainwashed in to making a street confrontation a safe and easy thing with rules and regs. Im sure the Thug out there is thinking "hey you know i should maybe make this a fight like the UFC would do it and give that other guy a chance"
Yeah right.

Peace,TWS

This suprises me. I have never heard anyone on this forumn trash talk either the UFC or MMA. I hope this is not a trend that continues

[PhilDunlap]

What the hell did this cluster**** have to do with a streetfight there was not a single person there who wanted to actually fight

[Notintheface]

Originally Posted by Notintheface
Being on the ground is far from being an optimal position during a street fight.

I disagree... sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't

Ok let me clarify, when I say less than optimal I mean in a strategic sense. The main goal of a street encounter is to be able to survive and GTFO there. IF being on the ground gets you out of there more expediently then it is the optimal choice if not for the given encounter then it is not.

You are so right, one on one fights in certain areas are rare

I'd be willing to bet that most "street" encounters (these would include people squaring off to fight, robberies & assaults, road rage, etc.) involve one person against one other person and that other people jumping in comprise less than 20% of these confrontations.

You are also correct in assertaining that the "jump" fight scenario occurs less frequently than a one on one situation but my agreement was with the fact that certain area in certin cities they are more prevalant than the 1v1

[lkfmdc]

Slow morning, otherwise I wouldn't bother getting into this, but here's a question

Having a gun or similar protection device in case of an assualt is one thing, wasn't this suppsed to be two martial artists disagreeing about some martial art related topic?

[TenTigers]

christ, if that were the case, we'd all be in a rumble.

[Notintheface]

I think maybe everyone is too competition brainwashed and thinking about the way it would be if you were in the ring in a controlled situation with RULES AND REGS. I think you are going to find the streetfight a tad different than that

Willow you are gonna get me banned....I am trying not to be a troll but dude you are Fin Moron. Have you ever been in a street fight? Ok, wait have you been in more than one street fight? oh oh wait have you been in a street fight beyond grade or middle school?

Street fighting is not a cool thing to be proud of and it would be pointless for me to say I have been in XXX amount of fights blah blah blah.

Knowing how fight on the ground helps you deal with someone teabag pinning on the floor and GNP your ass. When most people get grounded they flail their legs and panic or they don't know how to buck their hips. Any of these skilss could help stop that OMG HE IS GUTTING ME Stuff you mention. If you don't know it instead of increasing your chance for suvival by whatever % you instead flopp around like a fish and get GUtted. Please come back when you have some basic concept of street combat.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I think the idea is to have the ground skills, but avoid the ground at all costs unless you are forced there.. If so, you want the skills needed to get back up fast.

I have often thought Monkey Boxing might be good for that, but I don't know much of it..at least not enough to ever prove, or disprove my theory.

[PangQuan]

anyone watch the IFL?

watched it again last night. Chris Horodecki, the 19 year old with the 10-0 record.

pretty good kid and if you watch him fight, he is one of the guys that is prettty much a striker with a great ground defense in place.

he gets taken down tons of times but he always gets it back to standing, or he shoves the takedown before it goes anywhere. some good stuff.

also on the Heavy weight Krzysztof Soszynski had some nice defense as well.

i mean his opponent last night 208lbs Kryz is like 220 or so, more than half the times his opponent went to shoot on him he just wrapped his arms under the guy and physically just stopped him dead in his tracks lifting the guy up.

granted a couple times he got his momentum thrown against him and ended up over a hip, but still fun to watch.

ground and take down defense is a MUST if you want to be a rounded fighter.

Even if you dont like the ground, you better respect it or it will sure as hell dis respect you.