Ark Yuey Wong- list of lineage/style holders?

[Jim Anestasi]

El Matador, Thank you for your kind words,I'm glad you enjoyed the lines and boxes.For me it made thing better when teaching new students as I didn't have to stand there and say" AGAIN" over & over the student now had a reference to see his foot position. G.M.Ark Y.Wong said you should always end your set at where you started exactly,if not Again .
Yes I recall the different exhales sounds ,some were longer and a little louder.
Good luck in your search,best to your family.

Keep in touch,
Sifu Jim

[NGKSMM]

Why do some people (including Doug Wong) say that Haumea Lefiti's Splashing Hands is Mok Gar? This video clip looks nothing like Splashing Hands.

Keboh,
You should ask this question to those people. all I know is Doug, couple other people and two of my students learned directly from Lefiti. We all know that he intergrated some of Ng Ga forms to enhance his system; that's it. I think your quest eventually will ended up like this "That's what I have been told by GM Ark Wong and Sifu Haumea Lefiti"; unfortunately they have passed away. But if someone could show a video of Lefiti; that would help.

Seming

[NGKSMM]

The marking of the pattern was always on the floor in all the school I ever see.
We call it " Walking your horse pattern." I also hear people talk about 40 - 60, 50 - 50, 60 - 40....... Very confusing... Cat stance is always called " Light leg." regardless of the weight balance.. We find that when people are not sure of what they do they " Intellectualize ."

Kangmuk,
The “light leg” is called “xu ma” in Mandarin; the concept and principal applies not just the cat stance “deal ma”; but including other stances and hand movements. The opposite of “xu” will be “shi”.
You had mentioned that there are friends of my grandfather in Fukein; I knew he had been there a few times with one of his Sifu Ho Yeng. I am sure he made some kung fu friends there. Although I have never been to Fukein, please give my regards (especially to Lam Hung Fa); and tell them Wong’s family already sent his spirit back home.
Please PM me, I would like to know some personal matters.

Seming

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have heard mix things about splashing hands from, it was a creation of Tiny, it was a "*******ization" of Kajukenbo, it was never taught by GM Wong, James's system is not like Tiny, etc, etc.

Don't know if there is any truth ti any of it, but its another example of what happens when a system or part of a system is kept out of the public eye, it gets "confused".

[NGKSMM]

I have heard mix things about splashing hands from, it was a creation of Tiny, it was a "*******ization" of Kajukenbo, it was never taught by GM Wong, James's system is not like Tiny, etc, etc.

Don't know if there is any truth ti any of it, but its another example of what happens when a system or part of a system is kept out of the public eye, it gets "confused".

Back in the 60’s-70’s; we knew that Tiny’s system is called Limalama, Doug Wong (whitelotus), Carl Totton (Taoist institute), George XX (Ark Wong student) all learned from him directly; I took a couple short lessons from him too. Ruben Delong (Lion’s Path) and his brother came to me in late 80’s after Tiny passed away; from what they showed; Tiny taught them Ng Ga salute, small cross, butterfly, combination, and blackbird with his changes to the stances, application theory, and form execution concept.
I don’t know your relationship with Tiny or Mcneil; but would like to ask you from what reference point you said “James’s system is not like Tiny,etc,etc.?” Have you seen Tiny did something in person or perhaps in his videos?

Seming

[Keboh]

I think your quest eventually will ended up like this "That's what I have been told by GM Ark Wong and Sifu Haumea Lefiti"; unfortunately they have passed away. But if someone could show a video of Lefiti; that would help.

Seming

Thank you for your kind reply.
Sadly I have no video of Lefiti ... but here is some footage of some basics (shuffles, brown).
http://hem.passagen.se/sifu1/splashing.html

I'd love to know where it came from ... I hope it's genuine Shaolin not just repackaged Kempo.

[Steeeve]

Sanjuro

U said

I have heard mix things about splashing hands from, it was a creation of Tiny, it was a "*******ization" of Kajukenbo, it was never taught by GM Wong, James's system is not like Tiny, etc, etc.

Don't know if there is any truth ti any of it, but its another example of what happens when a system or part of a system is kept out of the public eye, it gets "confused".


No Kajukenbo in Splashing Hands ....but more American Kenpo Of Ed Parker, and Lima Lama.....

Steeve

[Steeeve]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hHnLrkGsyI



Steeve

[Steeeve]

http://www.wama-club.com/limalama_history.htm

From what I see Tiny learned some Ng Ga from GM Wong and incorporated that in Lima Lama since he is a co founder with the others guys....like a co founder he is the guys who bring sil lum kung fu in the system .....

Here interesting

http://physicalstrategies.blogspot.c...k-between.html

And for ending

I think here is a link for the same old story

http://martial.best.vwh.net/forum/sh...ad.php?t=48777

Steeve

[kangmuk]

Thank you for your information Master Ma. It truly is a small world as they say.
I would like to say first that I have been very fortunate that I have work that give me the chance to travel greatly. I have spent much time in Hawaii and most of the States and thru the North and South of the States. I am sorry that I never get a chance to see some important people in our arts as my timing was too late. I had messages to bring along with the good will from names you mention like Master Ho Yeng. GM Lee Ric also had many kind words to say. GM Wong Ark Yuey had many many friends here and from what I see all over the world. I had meetings in Mexican States, Oaxaca was one and GM Wong is to today held in the highest regard by all who study our art. I am glad to see that you Master Seming Ma are keeping this family tradition alive and growing !

Again it make me sad to see where this is going when I see that there are people trying to take the credit for what is simple training such as Ma walking. there are many names that I don't know if everyone can know when we talk so I try to keep simple. xu ma ,deal ma, etc. The horse is the basic of ALL kung fu.
The box pattern is in EVERY school ! People in the States were very fortunate to have the chance to learn from one of the best Sifu in the arts ! I shake my head when I see the claim of what they say. I am familiar with Master Shun. I met him when he was young in Oaho Hawaii. He had a great understanding of the system. He only need the direction to put it in order. Sorry to hear that he is gone.

We don't call someone a Master until they have the style and the age behind them. We don't call someone a Grand Master until they have learn the three style which is different. that also come with the age and the respect of all. I see that the system is different in the States. Only have to do a little bit and they call you Master . Be called Master comes witha lot of blood and sweat ! I see every body talk but I don't see any body talk about how to train !

For the Splashing Hand. This is a technique taught to children to get the arm and body strong to learn the palm training later. I see there are whole system taught around it. We start with a large jar of water and we slap into it until you can hit and the hand stay dry . The horse is from Ba Gua style. Use in technique so no one can follow your horse.

Thank you Master Ma, I will send you message so we can talk. We have much to talk about.

[G.S.5Family]

KANGMUK It is good to know that Grandmaster Wong was and is still so highly thought of in China. I hope that someday I have the Honor of meeting you. Good Health and Long Life be Yours. George Sanchez.

[Keboh]

For the Splashing Hand. This is a technique taught to children to get the arm and body strong to learn the palm training later. I see there are whole system taught around it. We start with a large jar of water and we slap into it until you can hit and the hand stay dry . The horse is from Ba Gua style. Use in technique so no one can follow your horse.

Dear Kangmuk, thanks for the interseting information!
As you appear to be based in China, may I ask if you ever saw or heard of a style with the name of Splashing Hands? I was told that the Chinese name was Zanshou. I don't have the characters, but if it will help I can try to find them for you.

This is some more details about the style of Splashing Hands:
http://www.kungfupower.com/splashinghands.html
It says it is a Shaolin temple style.
Thank you so much.

[sanjuro_ronin]

So, from what I gather, its unclear what splashing hands is.

This is some more details about the style of Splashing Hands:
http://www.kungfupower.com/splashinghands.html
It says it is a Shaolin temple style.
Thank you so much.

For the Splashing Hand. This is a technique taught to children to get the arm and body strong to learn the palm training later. I see there are whole system taught around it. We start with a large jar of water and we slap into it until you can hit and the hand stay dry . The horse is from Ba Gua style. Use in technique so no one can follow your horse.

No Kajukenbo in Splashing Hands ....but more American Kenpo Of Ed Parker, and Lima Lama.....

I'd love to know where it came from ... I hope it's genuine Shaolin not just repackaged Kempo.

Back in the 60’s-70’s; we knew that Tiny’s system is called Limalama, Doug Wong (whitelotus), Carl Totton (Taoist institute), George XX (Ark Wong student) all learned from him directly; I took a couple short lessons from him too. Ruben Delong (Lion’s Path) and his brother came to me in late 80’s after Tiny passed away; from what they showed; Tiny taught them Ng Ga salute, small cross, butterfly, combination, and blackbird with his changes to the stances, application theory, and form execution concept.

As for this question:

I don’t know your relationship with Tiny or Mcneil; but would like to ask you from what reference point you said “James’s system is not like Tiny,etc,etc.?” Have you seen Tiny did something in person or perhaps in his videos?

It is what I have heard, which means it should be taken with a grain of salt, like anything "heard".

[Cambrais]

Thanks you Kangmuk, wherever and whomever you are, for all the valid information. Since we are all brothers and sisters, uncles and aunts, I prefer to call people by their name or nickname than all those titles that are becoming cheap, very cheap from too much usage and very much self-aquired and/or induced!

[chrislomas]

RE the splashing hand issue. It is one that is unlikely to resolve. However as a close student of Sifu McNeils here are some pretty established facts:

1. What Sifu McNeil teaches is very similar (he would say the same) as Tiny's system. Sifu McNeil has video footage of himself in his mid twenties going through the whole system, his Kung Fu brothers at competitions doing the same stuff and we have a little bit of footage of Tiny, all is the same. My School brother Franklin Fick searched out on of L. T. Davies' (tiny's senior student who died) student and he did the same practices/forms Sifu McNeil's students do.

2. Tiny influenced Ed Parker's Kempo not the other way round. If you use the search funtion over at Martialtalk.com there is a long thread about this. Ron Chapel, a senior of Ed Parker and a student of Tiny will confirm that Huame was a huge influence on Ed Parker. Splashing Hands -> Ke?po not Ke?po -> Splashing Hands!

3. Splashing Hands conditioning Ie the hitting into water that is practised in many styles by many Kung Fu people (and I am one of them from a different lineage) is completely different to what Tiny Taught, they both share the same name that is all (though yet another semantic confusion that dogs this debate).

4. Tiny taught under the schools name 'Lefiti Kung Fu', he also taught under the name 'Polynesian Art of Self Defence'. When he joined 'Lima Lama' it was a group of martial artists who wanted to share material, make an association etc. It was not a style at the time. When it started to become a style he left. Again he influence Lima Lama but did not teach it.

5. Chiao Chang Hung a very famous Taiwanese Martial Artist (Hsing/Bagua/Nine Little Heaven) recognised the style on a visit to America in 1984, he was shocked as he thought it had died out. he knew it by a different name though. I have confirmed this with several witnesses.

Now according to Sifu McNeil (who studied excluively with Tiny for seven years) when asked what he taught Huame said it was derived from an art taught to him when stationed in Taiwan called Zan Shou/Splashing hands by an ex-General with the surname Wong.

To avoid confusion with san shou and san soo we use the English. This seemingly Taiwanese portion of the art is in the 30 short combinations and two forms ('Four Corners' & 'Advances Linked'). He also told Sifu McNeil about the systems legendary origins as passed to him by General Wong.

Upon having the opportunitry to work with GM Ark Yuey Wong, Huame Lefiti incorporated his forms into the system. Interestingly there are really no new moves, but the stratergies employed heavily differ from the earlier (taiwanese) material. Ark Wong with his incredible Kung Fu knowledge certainly would have helped in this translation process. I have recently released this forms on DVD, [advert] you can get them at www.chinesehealtharts.co.uk [close advert]

As for the name 'Splashing Hands' who cares what the name is, we have to call it something. It is a shame my teacher often gets stick for teaching this system as he was taught it. He later learnt Ng Ga Kuen, Ng Ying Kuen with Ralph Shun, before becoming a lineage holder in Hsing I, Pakua, Little Nine Heaven & Zimen Chuan so he has no need to lie or 'alter' the truth concerning his Kung Fu. He, like me, simply loves the Splashing Hands system, no matter the truth of its actual origins, and hope to preserve it. It is a truly great system when the chips are down
Sorry for the ramble, but I thought I'd put it all in one post!

Best Respects to all Seniors/cousins & friends in Kung Fu
Chris