ussd claim they teach shaolin

[SenseiShellie]

Shaolin and Kung fu are based on philosophy, basic stance trainig and practical application, and not whether you use english , japanese or chinese terminology or whether you have belts , gis , lion dances or specific forms, all this simple does not matter does not matter.

Get a clue people and start living in reality.

Personallly I think that people should stop refering to CMA as Kung Fu because even if you practice another martial art and have put time and effort or hard work you still essentially practice Kung Fu.

I agree. Isn't it true that the traditional Masters of CMA practiced medicince, martial arts and the fine arts?

[TenTigers]

um, no. They were killers, with mind and body honed to deadly perfection. But not a sage, not Kwai Chang Caine. Wake up Dorothy. Do some real research. Look up who the real CMAists were. Not the ones from the Chinese folk dramas.

[TenTigers]

that being said, many of us still try to follow the way of the scholar warrior, and yes, Dorothy, I too still hold a warm part of my heart for David Carradine.
(But NOT Ralph Machio!)

[SoCo KungFu]

Sorry for my ignorance as my web fu is pretty rusty. What is USSD?

Since I have nothing really relevant to say on the topic, afterall I don't even know what USSD stands for, I'm just kinda throwing out things to a bunch of various topics in the thread.

Shaolin is based on Chan first and foremost. Shaolin based kung fu then in turn being a system of defense utilises that same religious/philosophical background. Chan being about self discipline and all that jazz, the horse stance training and conditioning and stuff that tattooedmonk said kinda follows right up in that line. Isn't kinda funny though that Shaolin has embraced the "fluff" of its own name in recent years. Isn't Chan about stripping away excess in route to personal development? I mean, I'm glad those guys finally got things like ummm, plumbing and all. But I thought all that other material stuff was kinda the whole problem that Tamo original scoffed at some 1500 years ago and started this whole Shaolin thing to begin with?

I do have to agree with the monk though; Gi's, belts and all that stuff doesn't make the art. If you really wanna get down to it, that whole orange shaolin suit thing that all the monks wore was just a uniform like any other. They all wore the same clothes, yeah I know they had that grey one too, at least they do for sell here And they all had the same haircut. But that just went along with the whole removing the individual self which aided in the transition of the material world to a state which could lead to personal mastery. You know how in the movies they have the guy at the altar getting his head shaved and they rename him and all that

Heck I usually just train in a ratty old shirt. And I hate wearing my sash. The only time I'm in "uniform" is on those occassions I meet my sifu at the kwoon. Usually when I'm with my friends though we are out in the yard wearing whatever. To quote that cheesy old movie Sidekicks, " No need Gi to break brick." I can see though why a lot of school use the Gi's now though, it does stand up much better when training throws and Chi' na type things.

The only thing that seperates kung fu as a martial art from other arts is the way in which it applies its use. All realistic MA are just different routes to the same end. Kung Fu, and TCMA as a whole are just one of them. And since TCMA are so broad even to define itself is impossible. The lines aren't so black and white. The only real noticable difference is that TCMA in general apply more circular force than the other Asian arts (though that's not all exclusive) and the one other thing is that it is also so linked with medical application. The old masters realised that in their times, just like in present day. One is much more likely do die of old age or illness than by a physical assault. So kung fu in general, places a lot more emphasis on physical development that the TJMA and Korean arts. Do those other guys PT too? Sure. But its not really placed within the curriculum so much.

You know one interesting thing. When I used to live in Okinawa and watch the old guys doing karate. There were a couple styles (Shohei Ryu is the only one I learned the name of) which really does still have a lot of kung fu flavor. The footwork is a bit more streamlined, a lot of emphasis on 3 stances (horse stance, forward stance and that weird karate not horse stance but not pok ma). But the hand technique was very much the same. They had the tiger and mantis and all that jazz going on. It was very interesting. I wish I could have spoken to the guy about the apps and stuff but well, my Japanese just wasn't that good and I didn't want to offend the guy, just walking up out of the blue and asking him about his MA.

Ummm...hmmm...the only other thing I can think of...Kung Fu masters were not killers as TT put it. Though they weren't all the scholars either. They were just people. They were farmers, doctors, soldiers, cops, religious leaders...a lot like everyone today. The only difference is that they took their training a lot more seriously. Cuz well that's how people fought back then. Kung fu might have been a lot different if guns were invented 300 years sooner or so... But to say that they were deadly perfected killers is just as much an exaggeration as to say they were all divine beings that could float on clouds and played flutes all day. They were human. Skinny, fat, tall, short...they got happy, mad, jelous, apathetic just like the rest of us. Not to debunk anyones faith in the art or anything. If anything I would hope it refocuses you. Those guys got so good but yet they were just human. There is no reason why with the same effort anyone here couldn't be just as good. If anything people now days have more time to train. No one I know is waking up at 4:00 am to milk a cow and plant rice. People have a lot of excuses not to train now days. But work, kids, bills...these aren't new things, people 400 years ago had the same problems. And hey you aren't going to be hanged for bouncing a check

Anyways, what were we talking about? Oh yeah, what's USSD?

[SenseiShellie]

um, no. They were killers, with mind and body honed to deadly perfection. But not a sage, not Kwai Chang Caine. Wake up Dorothy. Do some real research. Look up who the real CMAists were. Not the ones from the Chinese folk dramas.

look dude, i asked a question. it was one that was requiring an answer...not a chastising.

[TenTigers]

sorry Sensei,
not chastising you ,personally. Just the idea that Shaolin Monks were the upright Buddhist sutra reciting icons we bought into from all the movies, books, and TV shows. Warrior Monks were warriors. Many did not take buddhist vows at all. Many lived on the grounds and shaved their heads, wore robes, but were actually in hiding from the Ching Govt.
Certainly Not David Carradine,
more like Chuck Zito, but with a shaved head.

[PangQuan]

wasnt there some deal also that you could escape prison time if you joined a temple/monestary?

[xcakid]

wasnt there some deal also that you could escape prison time if you joined a temple/monestary?

I believe you can seek asylum.

[SenseiShellie]

sorry Sensei,
not chastising you ,personally. Just the idea that Shaolin Monks were the upright Buddhist sutra reciting icons we bought into from all the movies, books, and TV shows. Warrior Monks were warriors. Many did not take buddhist vows at all. Many lived on the grounds and shaved their heads, wore robes, but were actually in hiding from the Ching Govt.
Certainly Not David Carradine,
more like Chuck Zito, but with a shaved head.

Hey...that's pretty cool. I didn't know that! I like the Chuck Zito image...lol.

[Songshan]

sorry Sensei,
not chastising you ,personally. Just the idea that Shaolin Monks were the upright Buddhist sutra reciting icons we bought into from all the movies, books, and TV shows. Warrior Monks were warriors. Many did not take buddhist vows at all. Many lived on the grounds and shaved their heads, wore robes, but were actually in hiding from the Ching Govt.
Certainly Not David Carradine,
more like Chuck Zito, but with a shaved head.

Yea that's just the problem....a lot of us bought into the "monks out of the movie image". The reality of it is the "warrior monks" are not fully ordained religious monks that everyone seems to think thats what a monk should be. Most of em are lay disciples. So like any other MA style they fall under the same scrutiny as people put with organizations like the USSD and what not.