The Ten Songshan Shaolin Forms

[Royal Dragon]

Yeah at :47 he adds this stepping back cause he was going beyond camera range and had to reel himself back in (that's all).
yeah, this form is often marked here and also earlier at :25-27.

Reply]
I thought so too. He skips some moves at :33 too as well as other places.

I'll let you in an a secret about this form, it is always marked (moves left out or done very mushy so you can't tell exactly what they did there) exactly at the same spots that it corresponds to something that is very important to Chen Tai Ji.
Why?

Reply]
Really? I don't know Chen, so Ican am not able to see that.


Cause a) they don't want you to know that; b) then you will know the real way to do the movements with internal strength and soft/hard/fast/slow energy; and c) the young people that do these forms only care about doing the forms so that they look good to the public, so they have streamlined the forms and taken out the parts that slow it down, which happen to be the important parts.

Reply]
WuShuised.

I got that straight from the horse's mouth, Russ asked his teachers at Shaolin for me.

Also, since I possess the old original Quan Pu for this form I know the real routine, with the original characters in Chinese being from a very old way to make the characters, some of the characters in the verses I had to ask many people to translate until I could find someone of sufficient knowledge that they could understand them.

For example, what is commonly called Single Whip, in the ancient quan pu I have, the character instead says it is a "dig wedge hammer" or a "Plowing hammer" as it would be known today,

Reply]
Interesting, that gives me some things to think about.

but the characters not used anymore and are for a very ancient farming tool, where you hold the handles on each side and you walk along a row as you push a blade through making furrows, so that seeds can be planted.
In pinyin it says "Jue-Xie Chui", but it took a long time to decipher that from the old rare characters.

All the verses are like that, saying things in a old way that is not from modern times.

Reply]
That is why this stuff is so difficult to map out.

[golden arhat]

Google "VDownloader" and install. You will be able to download then.

u sir are THE MAN

[LFJ]

u sir are THE MAN

how come it doesnt work for me?

[LFJ]

The Shaolin Tong Bi or Tong Bei is not like the Original Tong Bei of ancient times, it has almost the same name, but it is a lot more newer and based on different ideas, although the narrator in that video is mixing up the two different Tong Bei and Tong Bi styles together in his talking.

Shaolin Tong Bi is a mixture of their older forms and it done only for training.

Taoist Tong Bei is based on sword and ape movements.

what was he mixing up about them? talking about monkey?

i wouldnt say its an inaccurate description for shaolin tongbiquan to be the only "photographic boxing that belongs to the non-photographic boxing of shaolin boxing".

according to master shi deyang it is based on xiaohong, dahong, and houquan (monkey boxing). and the xiaotongbiquan sets have clear "monkey claw" hand forms in them, as well as some monkey behavioral body movements. so it is also called tongbi monkey boxing.

cant get more monkey than that without being placed in the "photographic" class. (i guess that refers to mimicry- or perhaps more appropriately "apery"?)

but its a mixture of the essential principles and techniques of xiaohong, dahong, and monkey... not a copy of those. hence, while it is partially based on monkey boxing it remains "non-photographic", a non-mimicry style.

i think the narrator was on-point with this one.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I don't even understand what he is saying......

[LFJ]

"the boxing is created according to the apes or monkeys long arms. yet the boxing taking over the spirit, but without the form of apes and monkeys, is the only photographic boxing that belongs to the non-photographic boxing in shaolin boxing."

[Siu Lum Fighter]

Of course...all of this is pointless since they should drop these ten forms in favor of the ten Bei Shaolin forms. The Song Shan forms are so much less spectacular anyway

[LFJ]

although, having ten forms from another system not practiced or taught in shaolinsi represent the martial arts of the temple, would seem a little awkward.

[Siu Lum Fighter]

Indeed, Chan is a great tree of life, of which Bei Shaolin kung fu is a big huge branch near the base. These days everyone only pays attention to the newly grown foliage at the top.

[LFJ]

it is possible for bei shaolin gongfu to be a branch of the chan tree. as can anything. but what part of that tree the branch may be doesnt put it any closer to shaolinsi- the temple or its martial arts. lol

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

If I understand my history right, the current core ten sets seen at Song Shan Shaolin today represents the really old Song dynasty era Shaolin (although that material has it's roots in the preceding dynasties).

Shaolin ten hand sets (Ky Yu Cheong) on the other had is representing the Ming dynasty era Shaolin material.

Both are the MAJOR variations of Shaolin themple Kung Fu. Those along with the really Old Louhan (which is Tang dynasty all the way back to Shaolin's beginning) are the 3 most over all styles that show Shaolin's most well known and identifying flavors during melenias of its existence.

I am sure there are plenty of other minor stylistic families that have come and gone, but the 3 big ones are what define Shaolin Kung Fu for thier particular Era.


[EDIT]
I forgot about Five Animals... that is in there during some time period as well.
I think Five animals fits in between Sung and Ming, but I really don't remember. I don't think that was really big till Southern Shaolin anyway.

[LFJ]

Shaolin ten hand sets (Ky Yu Cheong) on the other had is representing the Ming dynasty era Shaolin material.

as i've learned it, bak siu lam was created in southern china based on what the founder had learned in the temple up in the north. and so to pay tribute to shaolin he named the style "northern shaolin" in cantonese, bak siu lam.

although, it is by all means a style created in the south which has never been taught or practiced as a curriculum in the shaolin temple.

so, i fail to see how such a style can represent the martial arts in the shaolin temple- having never been there.

[LFJ]

i remember gene having a comment on this once before, saying he once showed his northern shaolin forms to some monks in shaolin, and while they didnt recognize the forms they said it is definitely a shaolin-related style.

but it is just that, a shaolin-related style. shi deyang has said, many styles of shaolin temple have spread throughout the country taking on the characteristics of and being adapted to the styles of local area people. but while we cant say these styles are not shaolin, they certainly are different from the material being taught and practiced in the shaolin temple. that point should be clear.

[Shaolindynasty]

Gene wrote a huge article on the subject of bak siu lum vs. songshan shaolin. it's in the ezine I can't find it. It was good stuff. Everyone who practices a system with roots in shaolin should read it.

[Shaolindynasty]

here it is http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezin...hp?article=158