sticking hands

[packard]

Hi all,

just got this from you tube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCkeb...elated&search=

made me wonder how many other styles, apart from wing chun have sticking hands or chi sao?

any thoughts from your styles perspective??

P

[SevenStar]

many cma styles have sticky hands, unfortunately.

[Royal Dragon]

Why do you say unfortunetly?

[Vajramusti]

They are NOT doing sticky hands... whoever they are---they are demonstrating some sequence- of if this, then that.
Effectiveness unknown- depends ....

joy chaudhuri

[SanHeChuan]

Mantis does sticky hands too.

The specific drills differ from style to style but have the same basic principal behind them.

Where wing chun does it like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UISsgfrydtQ

Where as other style might look like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Permz2Uz6L0
Not the best example but all i could find.

I hoping to find one with a little more back and forth.

[EarthDragon]

packard, as seven star said all styles have listening jing, yeliding and sticking. Once the body comes in contact with another person.

[SevenStar]

Why do you say unfortunetly?

you already know why - training specificity. I have never used any of that outside school, nor have I seen others use it. even a lot of the chi sao competitions you see look like judo matches - lots of pushing, tugging and clinching. sensitivity training is great, but clinch work is more applicable in both the ring and the street, imo.

[Knifefighter]

Stickings hand would be great if it wasn't for all the little unrealistic throws and punches, pretend neck cranks and going at much less than full resistance. Take those things out and it would be OK... of course then you would just have clinch training.

[Ben Gash]

Sticking hands is an important factor in Chinese martial arts training, and it's really what makes Kung Fu work. Most TCMA applications require sticking and listening to work. Of course if your sticky hands is bad then it's not going to be applicable. It also shouldn't be seen as an end in and of itself. It should be a bridge between drill work and free sparring.
I can't speak for other schools, but I don't do any unrealistic throws and punches, weak cranks or limited resistance in my sticky hands. Indeed, many's the time I've finished sticky hands bruised and bloodied. Also, my sticky hand skill is a key feature of my self defence methodology.
As for it just being clinch training if you do it in a realistic fashion, well it IS the TCMA infighting training Clinching and countering clinching are important sticky hand skills, as are inside punching, "dirty boxing" and various other things that would not be out of place in an MMA gym.
Of course, if your sticky hands training consists of endless rolling hands with weak set attacks and counters, you're not going to be able to fight, but that's bad sticky hand training, not sticky hand training being bad.

[SevenStar]

spar a boxer. bridge and stick to his jab.

[TenTigers]

the misnomer in sticking is twofold-
1-you don't stick or bridge a jab at the wrist or forearm, you follow it home (something all boxers do)and pin at or above the elbow, using your arm, not grabbing-which is why you CAN stick with gloves-it's in the bridge, not the hands.
2-you don't go in with the attitude,"I'm going to trap", you go in to HIT. If something obstructs your strike, then you either stick, trap, or run around it, and CONTINUE HITTING! -remember, that was the original intention, yes?
-well, that's my take on it anyway. I think once people learn "sticking" they "get stuck" on it. Sticking/Trapping is simply one solitary skill in CMA. It's serendipitous. If it occurs, great. If not, not.
Don't go looking for it, otherwise -you'll get blasted.

[SevenStar]

which is actually kinda my point - it just happens. the clinch is not that sporadic.

[BlueTravesty]

In Mizong/MyJhong, we did a sticky hands drill... I was told it was one of many similar drills. At an intermediate level, It went like this-

"A" throws a left jab. "B" guards. A throws a right cross. B Guards. A takes the guarding hand, pulls it down, and comes down over it- either as an overhand punch, or as a downward backfist

When we started out, it was simplified.
"A" throws a left backfist, B blocks all karate-ish (high block) A grabs the hand, pulls and comes down with another backfist.

I kinda liked it

[drleungjohn]

Glad to see those old lessons carried over-

[Ben Gash]

Ten Tigers raises some good points, but is not entirely there, and sevenstar appears to be missing the point a little. Why on earth would you want to stick to a boxer's jab? It wouldn't make sense.Once you'd slipped it you could stick to his upper arm, or like TT says, if you follow it back to him and stick to his guard, or better yet, stick to his guard in the first place and stop him jabbing at all. Could you do a standing arm bar on a boxer's jab? I seriously doubt it. Does this invalidate the standing arm bar? Of course not.
TT's right the goal is always to hit, break or throw your opponent (or ideally all 3), sticking is a means to an end. However, whenever you've made contact with your opponent then sticking comes into play. There are several levels of sticking hand training, and at the highest level the aim is to stick for less than a second before driving through with your attack. The prolonged rolling hands that you see is not the true sticking hand, it is simply the first and second levels of training to achieve the true sticking hand.
Sticking hands is also the best way to teach Chin Na techniques against a resisting opponent, and in fact adds a good sense of "aliveness" to any training. As for just teaching clinching instead? I do clinch drills as well. Like I say, the correct training matrix for TCMA is single technique, drill, sticky hand, sparring.