Shou Shu - real or another made-up melange?

[shaolin kungfu]

Perhaps the saddest thing is that some people actually buy into the schools BS.

[carly]

but it's like the Emperor's New Clothes - you have to wake up and face reality.

[shaolin kungfu]

The students of shou shu(at least the ones on here) refuse to see that their art is not what it claims to be.

[carly]

Some of them will think about what they have read here and begin to draw their own conclusions.
I doubt that asking their own teachers for more info will help.

[apoweyn]

turbo76,

Originally posted by turbo76
well from what i have learned, Shou Shu wasnt created in China. it came from China to America, but it came from India, Japan and Egypt too, maybe some other countries too.

ah, c'mon turbo. think about this. do some research. take some responsibility here.

the history says that it was handed down strictly through the mandarin ruling class. which is why none of us have heard of it before. now, not only did it exist outside of the mandarin ruling family. it existed outside of china. in fact, it didn't even originate there.

does that make any sense to you?

what's the reasoning now? why have none of us heard of this before now if it's passed through more countries than the average diplomat?

one possible answer: it went by different names in different countries. but then the next question was provided by you yourself. you said that shou shu features some of the same techniques as other arts. but that its performance is differentiated by 'shou shu movement.' if you could explain to us further about this movement, then perhaps we could recognize it in the arts of various countries and see for ourselves the thread that connects these various incarnations of shou shu.

from what i was told, Cobra and Mongoose came strickly from India, but one could say that Shou Shu in America is Moores American Shou Shu because Da Shifu has changed it some since he got it from China.

okay, let's try and keep this simple. can you provide one reference to shou shu not connected with the moore family? no? the moore family suggests that's because only they were taught the secret style, right? do you see how that gives them the opportunity to tell you virtually anything they want to?

and if shou shu changes from india to egypt to japan to china to the united states, what does it even mean to be a style? is there any connection whatsoever between 'american shou shu' and 'egyptian shou shu'?

also the "karate" term is used correctly because Shou Shu did go thro Japan too.

i was in korea once. didn't change my name to 'rhee.'

why is the term 'karate' more appropriate than 'kung fu' or... whatever the hell they called the martial art in egypt? don't you think it's possible that it's because what they're teaching actually is karate? and not some obscure and closely guarded mandarin family style?

from what i was told, it started in Egypt, then collected some info from India,(ex. Cobra, Mongoose) then went to Japan, then China, then finally America.

and have you ever heard of any other style going through that same process?

the terms Da Shifu, Shifu and all that was the language that Al Moore learned it in because he got it from China. Al Moore could speak Chinese like i speak English.

then why did he call it 'karate'? he spoke chinese. wouldn't it have made more sense, been more consistent, to stick with the terminology of one country? yes, it would've. but then, he couldn't have explained why the style looks so much like karate. c'mon turbo, there are too many inconsistencies for you not to at least ask some of these questions for yourself.

and proving that the history is true or not could never be proven to me cause i cant go back in time and see for my self so its not important to me. i could care less about the history, i mean its interseting, but i dont know if its a myth, all i care about is learning Shou Shu.

you've probably never been present for a complete circumnavigation of the globe either. and yet you accept that the earth is round, right? why? probably because this information 1) makes sense, 2) is corroborated by several independent sources and not through one biased source.

it's not a myth, turbo. myths were created by people who actually believed, who were trying to make sense of something they didn't understand.

this is a marketing ploy. designed to entice customers and provide a smokescreen. the saddest thing is that it's such a completely unnecessary smokescreen. if the school knows what it's doing, then it'll prosper. they don't need a 'secret' style. they need a solid curriculum disseminated by well-trained instructors. if they have that, then this story is unnecessary. if they don't, then this story is a manipulative ploy.


stuart b.

[Lao_Peng_You]

I have some general comments and questions regarding this "style" of martial art:

Why do these types of schools shroud themselves in secret and claim to be unbeatable?

I am familiar with a cultish Kung Fu organization claiming the unbeatable style etc. etc. Many chinese organizations have been isolationists as it pertains to other races, but not amongst themselves. Why is it important for more hybrid and racially open styles to hide themselves amongst themselves?

It is not uncommon for Kung Fu players of different styles to visit each other and cross hands in an intense yet friendly manner (by friendly I mean not to maim or kill). Does Shou Shu do this? Do they have tournaments? Can others join these tournaments?

What is the theory behind "beast" movements, and why is Shou Shu so different than let's say Norther Tiger? Why is a monkey unworthy of imitation? What are the general principles/strategies of Shou Shu? For example, what is a common way to gain advantage/position? What is the preferred distance for performing a technique?

[turbo76]

[firepalm]

middle america white folk figures!

[shaolin kungfu]

It's easier to leave then make valid points.

Before you leave, please answer some questions...

1) what principles does your art operate on?
2) are the moore's the only lineage holders of shou shu?
3) Why don't you care about the history of your school? I would think the fact that a school lies to it's students would be a sign of its validity.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by turbo76
i dont care about the history. i compare what ive learned to every art i come across and i still choose Shou Shu over them all. im done posting here. if you have any ?'s email the Shou Shu schools. good luck to ya all.

why would we do that? they don't answer our questions anyway.

so you're gone, and i don't expect you'll answer this. but just for the sake of being thorough: precisely what other arts have you 'come across' and what constitutes a 'comparison'?


stuart b.

[shaolin kungfu]

I don't think we will be getting any answers from the secretive shou shu guys.

[joedoe]

It is funny you know - I can almost see the process the school has gone through to fabricate the story.

1) We teach kempo/karate but we want to differentiate ourselves. How do we do that? Make up a story and change our name.

2) What story? How about one about an ancient, secret art handed down solely to our master. Make it Chinese because it is harder to verify due to the destruction perpetrated during the Cultural Revolution. Make it more exotic by saying it came from Egypt & India first.

3) What name? Hmmm - karate means something like empty hand, so let's translate that into Chinese. Shou = hand, shu = art so Shou Shu = 'hand art'.

Once again, the silence is deafening.

[shaolin kungfu]

The shou shu guys ran away, no point in trying to talk to them.

[carly]

Let's hope that they talk among themselves and do some rational, independent thinking.

[shaolin kungfu]

but i doubt they will. They seemed pretty closed minded.