"George never did wake up. And, even all that talking didn't make death any easier...at least not for us. Maybe, in the end, all you can really hope for is that your last thought is a nice one...even if it's just about the taste of a nice cold beer."
"If you find the right balance between desperation and fear you can make people believe anything"
"Is enlightenment even possible? Or, did I drive by it like a missed exit?"
It's simpler than you think.
I could be completely wrong"
Of course don't you think that self defense is JUST like fighting, especially in the ring?
In any self defense situation, there's a referee there to make sure everybody is ready to start.
In any self defense situation, there are rules. You can't have multiple attackers, you can't hit to the eyes, groin, back of the head, spine, use knives or any of that.
In any self defense situation they wear gloves.
In any self defense situation there's a mat -- it's never on pavement or any really hard surface.
Last edited by lunghushan; 02-09-2007 at 07:48 PM.
I'd like to add something else.
I've been jumped by three guys, I used hit and run tactics. I kept my back to some freshly cut bushes.
I made some surprise moves when they came for me. I knocked one of them out and locked another one while one was jammed up.
I had some scars and a deviated septum in the nose to remind me always. But I made it out on my own two feet.
....Something I could have never done if I were confined in a ring.
That's reality, that's the difference of SELF DEFENSE.
"O"
http://cykwoon.freewebspace.com/
https://www.youtube.com/user/Subitai
"O"..."Some people believe that you need to make another human being tap out to be a valid art. But I am constantly reminding them that I only have to defend myself and keep you from hurting me in order to Win."
"O"..."The Hung Style practiced solely in methods of Antiquity would ultimately only be useful versus Similar skill sets"
I quit after getting my first black belt because the school I was a part of was in the process of lowering their standards A painfully honest KC Elbows
The crap that many schools do is not the crap I was taught or train in or teach.
Dam nit... it made sense when it was running through my head.
DM
People love Iron Crotch. They can't get enough Iron Crotch. We all ride the Iron Crotch for the exposure. Gene
Find the safety flaw in the training. Rory Miller.
I quit after getting my first black belt because the school I was a part of was in the process of lowering their standards A painfully honest KC Elbows
The crap that many schools do is not the crap I was taught or train in or teach.
Dam nit... it made sense when it was running through my head.
DM
People love Iron Crotch. They can't get enough Iron Crotch. We all ride the Iron Crotch for the exposure. Gene
Find the safety flaw in the training. Rory Miller.
fighting would include everything about fighting.
self defense would be focusing on defensive and counters and may also include counter strikes, qin na, throw etc.
--
No, I don't think that fighting during a self-defense situation will be just like a ring fight.
But I don't think that the training hall is just like a street fight either.
There are certainly rules in a ring fight. But there are also rules in a kwoon, or dojo or training hall that claims to teach "self-defense for the street."
Rules are what allow people to practice their fighting techniques on each other without a high rate of injury. The rules may include things like banning certain techniques, entire categories of techniques, pulling the force or completion of certain techniques, using mats, using dulled or simulated weapons, using mats, using certain protective equipment etc.
They are reasonable safety parameters instituted to keep the participants safe from overt, unexpected and debilitating injury, and overuse injuries, so that the participants can KEEP training, regularly and frequently, and become proficient in their art. Even as it is, anybody who trains hard experiences occasional injury. Nature of the beast.
The arguments over training, therefore, tend to not really be about "street vs sport," but about what rule sets to implement during training for maximum street effectiveness.
Show me a training venue without rules and I'll show you either a liar, a brainwashed zombie who has swallowed the koolaid and is therefore incapable of forming the intent to lie, or a place with a short life expectancy, and/or a high proportion of one-eyed, one testicled, multiple-corrective surgery members.
Subitai - your post actually demonstrated my initial point. Certainly fighting WAS involved in your self-defense situation, but what also saved you was some quick thinking, some tactical awareness, and capitalizing on the opportunity local geography gave you. It wasn't just about your fighting. Congratulations on surviving - in fact overcoming - in a difficult situation.
Last edited by Merryprankster; 02-10-2007 at 08:19 AM.
"In the world of martial arts, respect is often a given. In the real world, it must be earned."
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. "--Bertrand Russell
"Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. "--Benjamin Disraeli
"A conservative government is an organised hypocrisy."--Benjamin Disraeli
Here are a couple of interesting takes on mulitple opponent attacks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1ZzZoJBGy8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7z5h...elated&search=
Last edited by Knifefighter; 02-10-2007 at 11:15 AM.
I have seen the second guys stuff before. I like his drills and what he is trying to impart with them. The only thing that I never see him have his students do at all in his knife vids or his multiple attacker vids is any pre-emptive striking.
They just wait to get attacked but besides that it would be great to see more mcdojos do stuff on that level. But again, if they did, people would leave.
Well, Malarky back at cha... Confinement "IS" a big deal
You fight 3 guys going after you who are not just trying to score points! 3 to 1 is not fair to begin with, hence a separate factor like space is an equilizer.
Hey, i'll tell what else malarky in sport. It's that I have to chase down another human being in an OCTAGON and then attempt to make him TAP. That in itself is NOT SELF DEFENSE! I know i've been there.
Also, i've never been deathly afraid for my life like I have in the street...
WHY?.... because of the UNKNOWN. Anyone saying otherwise is totally FULL OF SH!T.
In the Octagon, at least I knew what was about to happen and had time to prepare myself.
Reality is the unknown....not studying tapes of your opponant to figure out his weakness.
"O"
http://cykwoon.freewebspace.com/
https://www.youtube.com/user/Subitai
"O"..."Some people believe that you need to make another human being tap out to be a valid art. But I am constantly reminding them that I only have to defend myself and keep you from hurting me in order to Win."
"O"..."The Hung Style practiced solely in methods of Antiquity would ultimately only be useful versus Similar skill sets"
You are right about one thing... self-defense and ring fighting are two different things.
However, self-defense and the way most people practice martial arts are even more different.
I've been in both street and sport situations many times, and I have always been much more nervous in a MMA setting.
I think experience in MMA fighting events gives one a huge advantage in realistic situations over the person who has never done that type of thing. Combine that with some tricky street tactics and it's even better.
Last edited by Knifefighter; 02-10-2007 at 01:52 PM.
Really? You must be a freak Knife?
Here's some examples for you:
Number # 1
You know 6 months in advance...whom you may be fighting in a MMA event.
It's run by professionals. There is a referee with trainers and coaches also present. For safety, there is even some medics standing by?
or....
Number # 2
You are in Tijuana Mexico (or any other place in the world you might get jumped)
It's late, everyone's drinking of course. There are some local cops but they are only in the main Turist district. Some bars have bathrooms inside, some are more outside...nothing more than some concrete walls and a trough to pi ss in.
So you start goin' and three dudes walk in and hang by the door. You're about to get jumped and you know it before you done pi ssin'.
Keep in mind, you have NO IDEA how bad it's gonna get. Plus you're not even in your own country.
**************************
You're trying to tell me that Number 1 is more bothersome to you? If so, you're a freak.
Hahaha!!!
But I don't think you and I are talking about the same kind of fear or anxiety. And I know you know there is a difference.
Pre-fight jitters or belly butterflys are normal....the Unknown for your own personal safety is a whole other deal.
P.S. story number 2 is not made up.
I can totally agree with hard work and experience, can't complain about that. The more the better.
"O"
http://cykwoon.freewebspace.com/
https://www.youtube.com/user/Subitai
"O"..."Some people believe that you need to make another human being tap out to be a valid art. But I am constantly reminding them that I only have to defend myself and keep you from hurting me in order to Win."
"O"..."The Hung Style practiced solely in methods of Antiquity would ultimately only be useful versus Similar skill sets"