self defense vs fighting, different or same?

[SifuAbel]

To me, the MMA/CMA argument is a pointless one. It doesn't actually mean anything. The real issue is training. If you are training hard, and suit up and beat on each other on a regular frequent basis, you're probably going to be effective.

new sig.............

[Oso]

I agree with bodhitree.

Fighting is fighting. Period. Whether it's "MMA" or "CMA" or two guys with no training trading blows. Whether somebody is thinking about kicking another guy in the nuts or not.

Self-defense INCLUDES fighting, but is not limited to it. Self defense includes things like awareness of your surroundings, studying human "give aways," like posture, facial expressions, etc, understanding what is safe and what is not, de-escalation techniques, and a fair bit of psychology I would guess.

You could be great at self-defense and a lousy fighter. You could be a world-class fighter and lousy at self-defense.

To me, the MMA/CMA argument is a pointless one. It doesn't actually mean anything. The real issue is training. If you are training hard, and suit up and beat on each other on a regular frequent basis, you're probably going to be effective.

one of the best posts ever.

why does this guy keep saying **** that makes sense?????

[lunghushan]

Of course don't you think that self defense is JUST like fighting, especially in the ring?

In any self defense situation, there's a referee there to make sure everybody is ready to start.

In any self defense situation, there are rules. You can't have multiple attackers, you can't hit to the eyes, groin, back of the head, spine, use knives or any of that.

In any self defense situation they wear gloves.

In any self defense situation there's a mat -- it's never on pavement or any really hard surface.

[lunghushan]

one of the best posts ever.

why does this guy keep saying **** that makes sense?????

He doesn't really say anything except moronic nonsense, so of course most people agree with him.

[Subitai]

I'd like to add something else.

I've been jumped by three guys, I used hit and run tactics. I kept my back to some freshly cut bushes.

I made some surprise moves when they came for me. I knocked one of them out and locked another one while one was jammed up.

I had some scars and a deviated septum in the nose to remind me always. But I made it out on my own two feet.

....Something I could have never done if I were confined in a ring.

That's reality, that's the difference of SELF DEFENSE.

"O"

[rogue]

He doesn't really say anything except moronic nonsense, so of course most people agree with him.

Yes, that's our MP, always mirroring the opinions of those around him just so they will accept him.

[rogue]

I'd like to add something else.

I've been jumped by three guys, I used hit and run tactics. I kept my back to some freshly cut bushes.

I made some surprise moves when they came for me. I knocked one of them out and locked another one while one was jammed up.

I had some scars and a deviated septum in the nose to remind me always. But I made it out on my own two feet.

....Something I could have never done if I were confined in a ring.

That's reality, that's the difference of SELF DEFENSE.

"O"

Malarky. Altercations can happen anywhere, in the wide open spaces or even in an environment tighter and more confined than a ring. The size of the venue is not a determinant if something is non-sprot or self defense.

[SPJ]

fighting would include everything about fighting.

self defense would be focusing on defensive and counters and may also include counter strikes, qin na, throw etc.

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[Merryprankster]

No, I don't think that fighting during a self-defense situation will be just like a ring fight.

But I don't think that the training hall is just like a street fight either.

There are certainly rules in a ring fight. But there are also rules in a kwoon, or dojo or training hall that claims to teach "self-defense for the street."

Rules are what allow people to practice their fighting techniques on each other without a high rate of injury. The rules may include things like banning certain techniques, entire categories of techniques, pulling the force or completion of certain techniques, using mats, using dulled or simulated weapons, using mats, using certain protective equipment etc.

They are reasonable safety parameters instituted to keep the participants safe from overt, unexpected and debilitating injury, and overuse injuries, so that the participants can KEEP training, regularly and frequently, and become proficient in their art. Even as it is, anybody who trains hard experiences occasional injury. Nature of the beast.

The arguments over training, therefore, tend to not really be about "street vs sport," but about what rule sets to implement during training for maximum street effectiveness.

Show me a training venue without rules and I'll show you either a liar, a brainwashed zombie who has swallowed the koolaid and is therefore incapable of forming the intent to lie, or a place with a short life expectancy, and/or a high proportion of one-eyed, one testicled, multiple-corrective surgery members.

Subitai - your post actually demonstrated my initial point. Certainly fighting WAS involved in your self-defense situation, but what also saved you was some quick thinking, some tactical awareness, and capitalizing on the opportunity local geography gave you. It wasn't just about your fighting. Congratulations on surviving - in fact overcoming - in a difficult situation.

[Knifefighter]

Here are a couple of interesting takes on mulitple opponent attacks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1ZzZoJBGy8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7z5h...elated&search=

[Black Jack II]

I have seen the second guys stuff before. I like his drills and what he is trying to impart with them. The only thing that I never see him have his students do at all in his knife vids or his multiple attacker vids is any pre-emptive striking.

They just wait to get attacked but besides that it would be great to see more mcdojos do stuff on that level. But again, if they did, people would leave.

[Knifefighter]

The only thing that I never see him have his students do at all in his knife vids or his multiple attacker vids is any pre-emptive striking.

:05- guy in blue throws hard PES to smaller guy and knocks him down.
:39- PES first attack.

[Subitai]

Malarky. Altercations can happen anywhere, in the wide open spaces or even in an environment tighter and more confined than a ring. The size of the venue is not a determinant if something is non-sprot or self defense.

Well, Malarky back at cha... Confinement "IS" a big deal

You fight 3 guys going after you who are not just trying to score points! 3 to 1 is not fair to begin with, hence a separate factor like space is an equilizer.

Hey, i'll tell what else malarky in sport. It's that I have to chase down another human being in an OCTAGON and then attempt to make him TAP. That in itself is NOT SELF DEFENSE! I know i've been there.

Also, i've never been deathly afraid for my life like I have in the street...

WHY?.... because of the UNKNOWN. Anyone saying otherwise is totally FULL OF SH!T.

In the Octagon, at least I knew what was about to happen and had time to prepare myself.

Reality is the unknown....not studying tapes of your opponant to figure out his weakness.

"O"

[Knifefighter]

Also, i've never been deathly afraid for my life like I have in the street...
WHY?.... because of the UNKNOWN. Anyone saying otherwise is totally FULL OF SH!T.

You are right about one thing... self-defense and ring fighting are two different things.

However, self-defense and the way most people practice martial arts are even more different.

I've been in both street and sport situations many times, and I have always been much more nervous in a MMA setting.

I think experience in MMA fighting events gives one a huge advantage in realistic situations over the person who has never done that type of thing. Combine that with some tricky street tactics and it's even better.

[Subitai]

I've been in both street and sport situations many times, and I have always been much more nervous in a MMA setting.

Really? You must be a freak Knife?

Here's some examples for you:

Number # 1
You know 6 months in advance...whom you may be fighting in a MMA event.

It's run by professionals. There is a referee with trainers and coaches also present. For safety, there is even some medics standing by?

or....

Number # 2

You are in Tijuana Mexico (or any other place in the world you might get jumped)

It's late, everyone's drinking of course. There are some local cops but they are only in the main Turist district. Some bars have bathrooms inside, some are more outside...nothing more than some concrete walls and a trough to pi ss in.

So you start goin' and three dudes walk in and hang by the door. You're about to get jumped and you know it before you done pi ssin'.

Keep in mind, you have NO IDEA how bad it's gonna get. Plus you're not even in your own country.

**************************

You're trying to tell me that Number 1 is more bothersome to you? If so, you're a freak.


Hahaha!!!

But I don't think you and I are talking about the same kind of fear or anxiety. And I know you know there is a difference.

Pre-fight jitters or belly butterflys are normal....the Unknown for your own personal safety is a whole other deal.

P.S. story number 2 is not made up.

I think experience in MMA fighting events gives one a huge advantage in realistic situations over the person who has never done that type of thing. Combine that with some tricky street tactics and it's even better.

I can totally agree with hard work and experience, can't complain about that. The more the better.

"O"