Help With Hsing-Yi Crossing fist

[FANWOO]

could someone here please help me to understand the combat application of the crossing fist in the hsing-yi earth form? to me it just looks like a cross block. wouldn't crossing take more time in combat than using say the metal or fire elements ? i am confused.

[brucereiter]

could someone here please help me to understand the combat application of the crossing fist in the hsing-yi earth form? to me it just looks like a cross block. wouldn't crossing take more time in combat than using say the metal or fire elements ? i am confused.

hi ...

there are many applications for heng chuan. i think it is best to find them through practice but her are a couple ideas.

try to think of a way to throw/unbalance using stepping, hip control and moving their upper body the opposite direction as the lower body.

rear/low hand deflects strike while forward high hand strikes face jaw/nose/ear.


(below info copied from jiang rong qiao)
Heng Quan (Hern Chuan)
Element: Earth
Organ: Spleen
Power: Ball rolling
Energy: To cross, move sideways, or to force through aggressively with a sideward motion.

Heng Quan is considered to be neutral, or the center of the Five Elements. It is located centrally between Yin and Yang, and constitutes a bridge between them. In the Five Elements, it is like a ball rolling and belongs to Earth, and is related to the spleen and the stomach. This movement is able to make the Qi gathered at its center round and full. __Everything grows from the Earth. The old masters said that faith in the principle is just like the spleen in the body. A person without faith fails in everything. A person with a hurt spleen loses the harmony of the five internal organs. Beng Quan is the important move in Xingyi. Students should pay attention to it.__On the body, "Renshong" is the name of the cavity located between the nose and upper lip. It is related to the spleen, and reflects the condition of the spleen. __Song of Heng Quan_The front hand is Yang and the rear is Yin. The rear hand is always hiding under the armpit. As you exchange the posture and release the hand (attack), the leg raises for action.__The tongue curves upward and Qi is emitted. When Hern Quan is changing postures, the thighs are like scissors. Triangular body; moving the important stepping, feet and legs are maneuvered cleanly. When the rear hand is turning and becoming Yang, it repels toward the outside.__When the step falls, the three tips should line up. The tip of the nose and tip of the foot should be closely connected. When Heng Quan is used for striking, ther rear fist is Yin. The front hand is Yang and its elbow protects the heart. Left and right bend the bow and repel to the outside. The feet and hands fall at the same time and the tongue tip is curved.

[Plymouth Rocks]

Don't think of the five fists as techniques but rather directions of using neijing. Heng is outside to inside and...
"try to think of a way to throw/unbalance using stepping, hip control and moving their upper body the opposite direction as the lower body.'' is also a very good explanation. Imagine somethrows a right cross. Step beside (or hook it or whatever) the left foot and (after checking, blocking, striking w/e) the right hook, turn his body clockwise (to his left) and watch the fun.

[Three Harmonies]

Heng Quan represents horizontal energy. do not get too "hung" (pun intended ) up on literal apps from the Wu Xing, think of the principle of energy/movement. One very easy illustration is a hook punch.
Cheers
Jake

[fiercest tiger]

What would be horizontal and lateral energies relate to 3 HARMONIES?

Regards
Garry

[FANWOO]

could someone please help me to understand the combat applications of the hsing-yi earth form ? it seems to me to look like a crossing block. wouldn't that take unnecessary movement in combat as opposed to using the fire or water forms? any help here would be great

[Three Harmonies]

QUE??? What is your question?

[Three Harmonies]

Dude
Pick a thread and stick with it. I answered your question in the Kung Fu thread. Heng represents Horizontal energy, regardless of how it is expressed. For instance a hook punch is a good example.
Cheers
Jake

[stma]

A hook punch can also be an expression of zuan.

[Ray Pina]

Use your elbows as a wedge -- think snow plow -- so your hand can go to its target but the elbow (fueled by the foot driving and body connection) opens or collapses the defending bridge. The hands never go side to side. Use your elbows and foot.

[golden arhat]

i think this belongs in the neijia forum

[Three Harmonies]

STMA
Hmmm, can you desribe more? Are you refering to the waist turning while executing Dzuan Quan? I understand it as a drilling/rising type representation of energy.
Thanks
Jake

[The Willow Sword]

http://www.hsing-i.com/hsing-i_journal/songofheng.html

here is a reference point to Pattersons site. explains things pretty well.

hope this helps, TWS

[GeneChing]

Heng is the hardest of the elements to apply. You can pull a lot of stuff out of it; it's just not as obvious as the other four. I think the simplest application is the shot to the floating ribs or the takedown. Stick with those - keep it simple - and let the others come in good time. That's been my approach to it. Coming from a Shaolin background, it's easy for me to get all heady with crazy application variations. Xingyi has some crazy applications for sure, especially with the animals, but I find that a lot of its power as a combat art derives from the simple apps out of the elements.

[stma]

While the most common translation for zuan is "drilling", and certainly using zuan in its drilling capacity is a powerful tool, the old songs have zuan correspond to water. A less common definition of zuan is "make ones way into." This fits the water analogy better as water tend to seep into any nook or cranny available. Using a hook punch to wiggle around and through your opponent's defenses would then become a manifestation of zuan...

...or from a physiological point of view, the common way to do zuan is by rotating the arm outward as the fist goes out. If you rotate the arm inward instead, and allow the elbow to rise, the strike is easily transformed into a hook.