TUF Season 4 question

[Green Cloud]

How exactly are you "killing this thread now," aside from filling it with spelling mistakes?

Well I don't have to use my spell check since I know you'l do it for me

[David Jamieson]

spelling mistakes?

wow, the last refuge of the internet forum loser is pointing out spelling and grammar mistakes. lol

[Knifefighter]

ass Pi$$ed ass I get over the Subjective mma crap the debate is important, and it's the only thing that keps me comming back so I can prove them wrong.(

Want to prove us wrong?

Enter your guys in some real MMA events so we can see these impressive kung fu techniques that you teach in action.

Since, you have a vested economic interest in people believing that kung fu is the real deal when it comes to fighting/self-defense, its kind of hard to just take your word for it.

[Dragon Warrior]

Royce is still pretty much the one dimensional BJJ fighter he always was. Matt is much more of an example of the modern day MMA fighter who has skills in boxing, wrestling, AND BJJ.

Royce easily beats the majority of TMA fighters. Matt easily beats Royce. I think it is pretty obvjous Matt would have an even easier time of the same TMA fighters than Royce does, and not just because of his BJJ skills.

I disagree with matt being a multi dimensional fighter. His stand up is probably as good as Royce's, if not worse. You saw in the beginning of the fight that Matt didnt feel comfortable with Royce standing up and decided to take it to the ground where he could control Royce. When has Matt ever beat an opponent standing up?

The fact is that his jiujitsu is better than an outdated Royce.

I am not saying that Matt only utilizes BJJ, his wrestling combined with BJJ is what makes him so dangerous.

Royce did not only beat TMA fighters. He beat anyone that didnt know BJJ. Whether it was wrestling, Kickboxing, boxing, Judo, Kung-Fu, karate, etc., Royce was able to use his BJJ and beat his opponents. He didnt have to learn other styles of fighting because his opponents had no clue what to do when the fight went to the ground. 15 years later, everyone knows BJJ including Matt Hughes who has probably been training BJJ for 10 years now.

Because most fighters now know BJJ, to stay competitive BJJ guys have to learn how to fight on their feet.

It is unfair to say that Royce hasnt been training his stand up and wrestling. I am sure he has dedicated hours of training time to these areas. The fact is that he is just not good at it.
Anyway, no matter how many hours Royce put into boxing and wrestling, he couldnt beat Matt, Matt is just too athletic, heavy, skilled and strong for Royce.

The fighters of today pretty much have a good understanding of every dimension of fighting. It just comes down to WHO IS MORE PREPARED AND SKILLED (and sometimes lucky).

[Knifefighter]

The fact is that his jiujitsu is better than an outdated Royce.

Methinks you are probably right about this.

15 years later, everyone knows BJJ including Matt Hughes who has probably been training BJJ for 10 years now.

Well, everyone except for the TMA guys who are still living in caves believing that their lethal fat grabbing, neck breaking, finger bending, crescent kicking, backfisting, eye poking techniques are their keys to effectiveness.

It is unfair to say that Royce hasnt been training his stand up and wrestling. I am sure he has dedicated hours of training time to these areas. The fact is that he is just not good at it.

You are right. Royce has trained his standup game for years... and I think his standup is a very good example of the ineffectiveness of TMA techniques. For some reason that I have never been able to fathom, he has chosen to train in a TMA to develop his standup game. I think most people would agree that his standup is not very good, even after years of training it.

[Dragon Warrior]

You are right. Royce has trained his standup game for years... and I think his standup is a very good example of the ineffectiveness of the TMA approach. For some reason that I have never been able to fathom, he has chosen to train in a TMA to develop his standup game. I think most people would agree that his standup is not very good, even after years of training.

what TMA does he study?

I dont care if he trained for 5 years with Cro-Cop, he would still look wierd fighting stand-up. He's just not an athletic guy. I have a friend like that. He has been training stand up for years and he still looks funny in his fighing stance.

KF, there are some tough TMA guys out there. This is only my opinion, but, if you train in a traditional way and still dedicate at least one day a week to good sparring sessions, you are going to become a good fighter.

Sparring is really the key.

A lot of good MMA guys come from TMA backrounds. GSP and David Loussou (spelling) are two good examples. Both are Karate guys and you can see it in the way they fight.

I believe forms are the "yoga" part of CMA. They help you with conditioning, balance, control, breathing, agility, flexibility and overall athleticism. Combine that with some good pad work and sparring and you can become a good stand-up fighter. If you have never learned and practiced CMA forms than you really have no reference to base your opinion on.

I studied Northern Shaolin for 7 years at my old school. We dedicated every friday night to 2 hours worth of san shou style sparring. This including low leg kicks and takedowns. After doing this for a long time you develop an understanding of what works for you and what doesnt. To this day I spar with kickboxers and other types of stand-up fighters who just dont know what to do when they are sparring with me.

Is this because I dedicated about 50% of my training to forms, maybe not, but it didnt hurt.

I also have to give credit to my CMA training for helping me pick up BJJ so quickly. My brother and I both got our purple belts in less that 2.5 years. My brother competes in tournaments and beats BJJ'ers with over 10 years of training experience. We have both never trained in wrestling but can practice and train takedowns with guys that have been wrestling for years. Honostly, after learning so many forms/movements, BJJ moves seemed so easy to do and remember.

I do agree that a lot of CMA guys are full of ****, but you shouldnt bash on all of them.

All you closed minded CMA guys do have to someday come to realize that you have to know BJJ to be competitive in MMA and for a better understanding of street self-defense. I am sick of hearing CMA guys claiming that they know about ground fighting but have never drilled a mount escape.

I have met many TMA practioners whose only techniques are similar to the ones KF has been talking about. I just dont understand why someone would pay good money to learn how to poke someone in the eye. Isnt that obvious enough!

[LeeCasebolt]

spelling mistakes?

wow, the last refuge of the internet forum loser is pointing out spelling and grammar mistakes. lol

One of the things I've learned on the internet - while it isn't true that those who bother to spell, use punctuation and capitalization, and structure a sentence correctly are universally worth reading, those who don't universally aren't.

This thread is yet another demonstration of that principle.

[Yao Sing]

Grog no like fancy kung fu moves. They no good. Only ground and pound good.

You can set up a whipping strike like a cop choy and if it lands there's a good chance of ending the fight.

Grog no like whipping strike, only ground and pound good.

Well, the energies used in a whipping strike ...

Grog no like energies. Grog ground and pound energies until energies tap out.

No, you can't hit 'energies' ...

GROG CAN HIT ENERGIES! Grog can hit energies hard. If not Grog will arm bar energies until energies tap out!

I think you're not quite understanding me Mr. Grog.

You no explain to Grog. Grog know all fighting, you know only dancing. Grog no like dancing.

But ...

You not fight MMA you no fight.

I'm not into the MMA competition that much, I usually fight San Shou ...

San Shou not fighting, only UFC real fighting. Grog think San Shou pretty dance.

Um, ok. Sure thing there Grog. I'll see you around.

You no leave. Grog want know when you fight MMA event. Only real fight is MMA event.

[lkfmdc]

Comments like Yao Sing's are exactly why people don't take CMA seriously. You can't even follow basic concepts can you?

As a BJJ black belt, I'd wager a good amount of money that knifefighter is anything BUT a "ground and pound" person...

And clearly guys like me don't support San Shou/San Da

The basic argument is about percentage, effecitveness and how to learn to effectively use a technique. IF you don't spar, don't understand angles, etc you have no hope of landing a KO kahp choih

[Yao Sing]

Oh, I'm sorry. Are we supposed to be serious here? This thread fell apart long ago so it's nothing but mild amusement to me now. Sorry you're wound so tight.

Actually, as much as I hate your rude form of commenting you're actually the closest to drawing a balance between the two. Too bad it's about impossible to have a decent conversation with you. I'm sure it would be enlightening.

And Grog isn't neccessarily Knifefighter but if that's how you see it then I won't argue.

[Knifefighter]

I'm not into the MMA competition that much, I usually fight San Shou ...
San Shou not fighting, only UFC real fighting. Grog think San Shou pretty dance.

Yao Sing:
Do you fight San Shou?
San Shou is fighting, albeit with a slightly more restrictive rule set than MMA.

[Knifefighter]

On another note, chris, do you have any video of yourself sparring?

If anyone should be posting video it seems it should be you.

You are the one claiming that you are one of the very few who can actually fight with his "real deal" kung fu, although there is not evidence of this.

The only thing you have shown is some sloppy kickboxing stuff. Where exactly is an example of this "real" stuff?

[Knifefighter]

what TMA does he study?

Hapkido.

I dont care if he trained for 5 years with Cro-Cop, he would still look wierd fighting stand-up. He's just not an athletic guy. I have a friend like that. He has been training stand up for years and he still looks funny in his fighing stance.

I think he recently ended his association with that style. If he fights more, it will be interesting to see if he trains in a different style whether or not he improves in that area.

Sparring is really the key. After doing this for a long time you develop an understanding of what works for you and what doesnt.

And that is why it will be pretty much the same at the higher levels. There are only so many things that work, and most people figure out what they are after a while.

I believe forms are the "yoga" part of CMA. They help you with conditioning, balance, control, breathing, agility, flexibility and overall athleticism. Combine that with some good pad work and sparring and you can become a good stand-up fighter. If you have never learned and practiced CMA forms than you really have no reference to base your opinion on.

I've done a few forms in my time.
Like cjurakpt, I also have a background in the application of kineseology and, like him, I have concluded that forms are an inefficient way to train.

I just dont understand why someone would pay good money to learn how to poke someone in the eye. Isnt that obvious enough!

Exactly.

[SevenStar]

Yes, but this is a forum for people interested in kung fu, and we are discussing MMA that we have watched: so what? None of us are required to have ever fought in a MMA match; last time I tuned in to Spike I didn't have to first fax in a waiver stating I had ring experience so that I could watch TUF. This is a kung fu forum and we are kung fu people having a discussion, which happens to be about MMA. So again, why are you here? Why not go to a MMA discussion forum so that you can discuss this subject with your peers? Why do you participate in a community that is devoted to something which you seem to despise?

On that same token, why are you guys - who are interested in kung fu - having discussions about mma, regarless of how uninformed it may be? After all, this is a kung fu forum, so you should be discussing that, right?

That's no different or less acceptable than mma watching a kung fu forum and participating.

[SevenStar]

Actualy seven star I have a lot of experience in Capoeira my friend I grew up in the projects and I new a lot of off the boat brazilians so shut your young stupid over opinionated face up.

I'm your elder and you should have some respect when it comes to my experience kid.

What ever you just like the styles the you are doing, Youre what we call in the buisness a Jhony come lately.

You realy should have more respect little boy, unfortunatly your cup is full ( full of Sh!t) so please stop spuing you youthfull know it all garbage.

You're my elder, but act so much younger. grow up. Regardless, you wouldn't say what you said about capoeira if you knew that much about it, unless you making a very bad attempt at being sarcastic.

I'm sorry, but I don't respect elders who act younger than I am, old f@rt. I'm not in a kung fu lineage where I just respect you because you're there...