TUF Season 4 question

[cjurakpt]

excuse me Chris but now you guys just figure out what I was saying all along. You know back in the day you all used to gang up on me when I tried to offer MMA solutions. And If I'm correct you and i sparred on several occasions you know what I mean

let's just say that, in general, my perception / memory of things that were said and done "back in the day" at times agrees with and at times varies significantly from those of others who were present at that time (which, for the purposes of this forum, incoude you, Dave and Mike); therefore, I have, with a few exceptions, refrained in the past from either agreeing or disagreeing with what you guys have said about past events, since, as you so succinctly like to put it, I don't believe in airing "dirty laundry" in public;

that said, I do not remember specifically "ganging up" on you in regards to your offering "MMA solutions" - if you have a specific instance in mind that you can recall, let me know, it may jog my memory - regardless, if there were any time when you felt I was being agressive or dismissive towards you in such a situation, I apologize;

as far as us sparring, yes I do remember that we did so on several occasions, and if I get your implication, it consisted of a wide range of technique, including both striking and grappling

[SifuAbel]

Don't give him that much credit. This is a long standing sibling rivalry. Just more nipping for the teet.

[Green Cloud]

You and I are nothing alike.

If someone asked the same question I asked you, I would have given concrete and specific examples.

You, on the other hand, gave some lame-@ss reply about liking all styles, which is pretty much what one would expect from a fake.

See once again you proved my point youre just prejudice that and it just p!sses you off that I know more than you.

why don't you go back and do what you do best and go burn a cross on someones lawn

[The Xia]

Don't give him that much credit. This is a long standing sibling rivalry. Just more nipping for the teet.

Is it? If so, then I take back my comments and Ralek is still King of the Trolls.

[SifuAbel]

On another note, chris, do you have any video of yourself sparring?

[Green Cloud]

let's just say that, in general, my perception / memory of things that were said and done "back in the day" at times agrees with and at times varies significantly from those of others who were present at that time (which, for the purposes of this forum, incoude you, Dave and Mike); therefore, I have, with a few exceptions, refrained in the past from either agreeing or disagreeing with what you guys have said about past events, since, as you so succinctly like to put it, I don't believe in airing "dirty laundry" in public;

that said, I do not remember specifically "ganging up" on you in regards to your offering "MMA solutions" - if you have a specific instance in mind that you can recall, let me know, it may jog my memory - regardless, if there were any time when you felt I was being agressive or dismissive towards you in such a situation, I apologize;

as far as us sparring, yes I do remember that we did so on several occasions, and if I get your implication, it consisted of a wide range of technique, including both striking and grappling

thanks for that Chris the fact is that I have a lot of respect for you. I apploligize if you thought I was airing dirty laundry, so I wont be giving any example on line, you can call me and we can discuss it in private.

Keep in mind that out of all of us I run a draditional CMA and I have a vested intersest, unlike people that run a comercial school or a person that has sold out and turns to running a main stream MA school.

I can respect that so I never make derogotary statements, except when someone is implying what i do is inafective. think about it when someone take food off you table what would your responce be.

[Green Cloud]

Don't give him that much credit. This is a long standing sibling rivalry. Just more nipping for the teet.

Sibling rivalry is quite normal in any family, stop trying to instagate.

Who's side are you on anyway??? My post have nothing to do with some bull sH!t
rivalry, it's about protecting the reputation of CMA.

remember were supposed to be on the same team.

[The Xia]

SifuAbel was responding my post.

I must admit Knifefighter, I underestimated your trolling skills. Perhaps you should consider getting "Knifetroller" as your new forum name. That may give people a heads-up. I mean come on, you not only got TCMArs at each others’ throats, you managed to get training brothers at each others’ throats.

Congratulations, I don't think Ralek was even able to do that.

[cjurakpt]

BS!! Sparring with what? Where did you learn them?
Without the training that you now deem useless you couldn't even begin to use all these skills you have(may have). What, did they magically appear? You just knew?

some of the techniques I initially learned in the forms, others I was shown in context of things like drills, mit work, even self-defense situations, etc.; in all cases, I was shown these things by other people (e.g. - Dave Ross, CTS) - no where did I state that I "just knew"; as far as the sparring part, what got me able to use them in sparring was training them in sparring - my form practice, I feel, did not appreciably contribute to the actual useage of technique in a "live" situation;

So your forms suck..too bad. In my experience people whom poo poo form work one way or another end up really looking sloppy. I've fought with full contact and fully resisting opponents AND had great form. I count forms as one of the best training aids I have along with fighting and everything else.

whether my forms "suck" or not has really nothing to do with the point I am trying to make, which is that, I do not believe that my forms practice has had anything to contribute to my actual fighting skills (or lack thereof, as you so kindly mention); anyway, you have your belief system, I have mine - I just don't agree with yours; (although evidently this seems to engender a not insignificant degree of hostility on your part for some strange reason...); to my satisfaction, my perspective is backed up by my personal experience as well as all the reasearch in motor learning / performance that I have read (yes, go ahead, start the thread about how reasearch is BS, it has nothing to do with the real world, etc.); by extrapolation, my experience in the field of physical therapy also supports the perspective I espose, albeit in a somewhat different context, which in my opinion supplies evidence as to the universality of the context specific training principle



BTW, just a general observation: it's funny how when you state your case using a well-developed vocabulary, people feel the need to comment on that:

Hold on Chris I'm busy looking up all your NYU big words in the dictionary jeesh what happened to having a normal conversation.

Gus, with all due respect, I really don't understand why when I post something you frequently (this is either the 3rd or 4th time to my recollection) feel the need to make some comment about my "big words" and how you have to go look them up; the implication apears to be that I should communicate on a level that other people can understand ("normal conversation"); bottom line: I use the words I use simply because, in my opinion, they are the most precise way to communicate what I mean; if someone doesn't understand them, they can go look them up; anyway, you have made these comments repeatedly, so I just thought to point that out to you...

wow, you're anal. You sound like a simpleton with a dictionary.

Able - I really don't get your point here at all - you may not agree with what I say, but it's pretty irrelevant to deride the manner in which I say it; if I didn't know better, I'd say that you were actually trying to insult me - but since I have not said anything insulting to you (unless you took offense at my pointing out your propensities vis a vis your style of debate and disagreeing with a belief system that you obviously hold very strongly), that wouldn't make any sense now, would it?

[cjurakpt]

On another note, chris, do you have any video of yourself sparring?

not recently; your point?

[Green Cloud]

Chris I know your a smart guy and all, but in the past I was simply and humbly saying " El gwapo I am no match for your intelegence" I like to speak in laymens terms that other people can understand. Katalavenis ti sou leou ??? (you understand what I'm saying??)

I hope you get my point, I mean no direspect to you but some of the points that you make are a bit hard to understand.

[Green Cloud]

Obviously this thread has proved how divided we all realy are, so I'm killing this thread now, The rest of you go on and argue your vaige naive points with no positive direction.

As far as I'm concerned I will continue to practice traditional MA while the rest of you run in circles and try to figure out what road your on.

[YMC]

Originally posted by Dave Ross
What I've proven is that while some CMA technique can work, some of the other conventions of CMA are total crap. Rather than curse the darkness, flip on the F in lights

Originally posted by cjurakpt
I think a lot of TCMA is "filler" that has minimal bearing on actual fighting; furthermore, in terms of building fighting skill, the entire practice of forms is useless

May I ask how much of what CTS taught would fit in "filler" and "conventions" categories by either of your estimations? I hope my question is not taken as an attempt to further any arguments or intended in a disrespectful manner. I ask simply out of interest in the evolution of the TCMA to what it is today. As cjurakpt pointed out, much of the trappings of TCMA developed in a cultural setting that is no longer extant today. As far as I understand, CTS is one of the last successes produced from such a system and as such, it would be interesting to see what he passed on to you and what of his ideas and teachings have not withstood the winds of time.

A second question; By Mr. Ross's accounts, CTS was quite the fighter. If I recall correctly, cjurakpt mentioned CTS' skill with the staff. Did either of you see him use more esoteric techniques in a consistent manner that would be considered "low precentage" moves by your standards? Or did he always stay with "bread and butter" techniques in sparring or a real fight?

[The Xia]

This thread is fine so much as people discuss this in a civil manner. Most here are in the TCMA camp, with exceptions like Knifefighter. Things really started going down once it came to TCMA advocate vs. TCMA advocate. I feel it's fine to discuss differing opinions, so long as no one resorts to insults. Once you go to insults, the whole thread turns to a flame fest that little to no good discussion comes out of.

[unkokusai]

Obviously this thread has proved how divided we all realy are, so I'm killing this thread now, The rest of you go on and argue your vaige naive points with no positive direction.

How exactly are you "killing this thread now," aside from filling it with spelling mistakes?