The Raw Shaolin Form

[Royal Dragon]

Ok, since many Shaolin styles basically teach the same, or similar movements, what if we took ALL Shaolin forms and connected them back to back to back, and then deleted all the redundant techniques to create one single form that represents all of Shaolin's techniques in one set?

How long would it be?

[qixingmantis]

id say as long as a piece of string

[beiquan]

why would you want to do that?
all of these different systems have their own unique history and development.
there is a lot more to a system than the techniques that you see in forms, just because two systems have outwardly "similar" moves, the power training and jibengong as preserved in those 2 systems might result in 2 very different interpretations.
besides, there already is a standardized "Shaolin" form and it's not worth much IMO.

[David Jamieson]

styles emphasize strategy and tactics which define them as a style.
Shaolin is a very broad and general term that covers a whole lot of styles.
teh long, the short, the middle. Different jings and how to develop them and how to express them in whatever context. the gongs, the augmentation practices that prepare you for use of techniques and so on and so on.

for people who study a system, it generally means following a method. That method will put emphasis on on what is known as workable within the context of what the master knows and what he will impart.

so in short, it would be virtually impossible to gather all forms and delete out all the redundancies because redundancy is what makes for progressive learning and strengthening of attributes associated with style.

anything worth having can't be rushed and when it is, it's not worth having.

[Shaolinlueb]

i think RD is tlaking about SOngshan shaolin. thats why he said raw. cause thats the "official" shaolin of today. and yes alot of their forms do look alike. I agree.

[BentMonk]

I could be wrong, but I think RD is curious as to how long we think a form that was assembled using each Shaolin technique one time would be. If I'm right, than this would be one seriously long form. I'd think it would take an hour or more to perform. If you could even remember all of it. I think SD already has a form like this. Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

As to redundancy within forms, I think it is how the person who created the form emphasized the techniques they felt were the most important for a student to learn. Repetition builds mental and muscle memory, as well as strength and coordination. JMO

[mickey]

Greetings,

This has been done.

Bagua in my opinion is one of the remaining doors to the real Lohan technique. Instead of having hundreds of forms, there was a simplification to essential techniques that through the use of directional changes evolve into something greater than what the eye can initially see. Tan Tui is like that as well.


mickey

[GeneChing]

sit casting a shadow on a stone

[Shaolinlueb]

sit casting a shadow on a stone

always answering with your philosophical stuff no one understands.


*edit
except maybe jamieson cause he's a hippie canadian.

[Royal Dragon]

My thought is that there is so *Much* redundancy, that a single form of all Shaolin, with all the redundancies removed might not be more than a few hundred techniques in length.

[David Jamieson]

what's not to get about koans?

[Mulong]

You are referring to a compulsory set way (guiding taolu); didn't they tried that already?

[GeneChing]

But redundancy is good. Repetition, repetition, repetition. It's all the flowery stuff we can do without.

For me, actually, it goes the other way. Rather than look at all the different forms, I'm more fascinated by the multitude of variation within a single form. Take Xiaohong. It's practiced so many different ways. There's so much variation of interpretation between individuals. Just last week, I saw Yanxing's version of Yinshougun and it had a totally different beginning than what I was taught. I think both versions are valid. My version fits me better but Yanxing's version is still interesting. So for me, it's not about distilling to some universal essentials. It's about the immense diversity. If you just want basics, look to Muay Thai. There's only a few moves really, and then it's just repetition, repetition, repetition.

P.S. Shaolinlueb, that was a softball koan. Surely you can penetrate it with a little meditation.

[Shaolinlueb]

i was talking about casting a stone. not the softball koan. the koan ill run over.


p.s. isnt it cone?

[GeneChing]

talking softball koans
conical shaolin shadows
an ill stoned cast